Mark and Dami's little experiment

[Quexinos]

a method to make sure the player stays on the loop is fine. I mean, when you think about it, that's what making the loop concave would've done anyways - funnel the player down to the center of the loop so he would stay on it.

I like the controls as they are right now, but you guys need to fix the mouse sensitivity. It accelerates way too fast and doesn't detect slight movements very well.

I still kind like the challenge but... a way to stay in the loop would be fine. I just don't want them scripted. But it'd be kinda cool if you could like... move around in the loop like from one side to the other.

As for the sensitivity, if you have the latest build, just open the config file and set rotation_speed to like 5 or something. That's what I did and it works pretty well now.

[Kain]

Concave's a good idea cause if you completely fail at getting in the loop, you'll still be shot out. Just gives a margin of error. Though I'm embarrassed to say I'm not 100% sure how the physics of the concaveness is supposed to force you into the center.

[Aerosol]

it won't. Run through the half pipe again and you'll see. If you're going fast enough, it won't funnel you at all.

[DimensionWarped]

At all? That certainly isn't the case. Yes, the effect wouldn't be as strong at higher speeds, but it would definitely be noticeable as long as the angles aren't too far off.

[tentril]

Half-pipes going just horizontally wouldn't funnel you, but a half-pipe loop would do it.

[Serephim]

Starting to see the motive of Sega's ways, are we?

[Khorney]

thats what i was getting at. that doesn't really excuse having no gravity on certain floors though for lazyness' sake (looking at you S'06)

[BlazeHedgehog]

Starting to see the motive of Sega's ways, are we?

Yes, but no. Sega went totally overboard making loops fully scripted cutscenes that physically remove the player from the gameplay. In almost any 3D Sonic game you can simply let go of the controller during a "scripted action sequence" like running through a loop (or the whale scene in Sonic Adventure) and the game pretty much plays itself. I can't fail, I can't screw up, I just watch the scene play out. Sure, it looks cool; but it doesn't make me feel like I'm in control, either.

Which actually reminds me. Over the years I've witnessed a lot of games that, while not exactly like Classic Sonic games, seem to preserve the ideals the game mechanics were founded upon. One of my favorite games is Trackmania.

Trackmania solves the loop problem by making the loops wider than they are tall. Rather than thin strips of land barely big enough for Sonic to fit on, loops in Trackmania are often four or five lanes wide - making the margin for committing errors much, much more forgiving.

(Other games I've enjoyed because they made me think "This is the direction Sonic games should've gone" include

and

.)

[Vexus]

I have to agree with you there Blaze. Wider loops would solve this problem quite easily. It also would allow the player to make use of all that wide space, and the recently released Ashura: Dark Reign Demo proves how this theory works really well in a Sonic game. (watch 0:10 to 0:16)

This method adds that little extra interaction which actually makes loops an experience rather than eye candy. Ever since this engine came up, I've been wondering what other elements could have increased interaction in 3d... and I'm still thinking XD.

[Aerosol]

yea. The loops in this test stage are too small to really base much off of. I like this engine more and more as I play it!

[xhedgehogx]

That was awesome!

[sonicdude3]

Lookie, I made it pretty :3

Anyway, that aside. Great work guys, this is one fun little engine. Only complaints I have are that A. I don't like the running animation, sonic looks like he needs a neck brace, B. Sonic CD sound effects. I fixed that easily though

Also, I changed the music to "Good egg galaxy" from Super Mario Galaxy, fits the mood better.

Good work guys, cant wait to see more.

[ssbfalcon]

This is pretty good guys... Great work...

Only complaints: Keyboard controls are way too imprecise for my tastes... Eventually Analog Joystick support would be nice (well, it makes SRB2 so much more controllable). Mouse for camera is a tad awkward for a platformer as well... Keyboard controls should eventually include an automagic camera...

Loops demoed were a tad... thin... For loops that thin, the auto adjust should be a tad stronger, especially with keyboard controls where movement is relatively imprecise for a game at that speed...

[Streak Thunderstorm]

I'm in the mix now. That's a level being developed by none other than mois.

[DimensionWarped]

By a tad stronger do you mean that it should exist? because as it stands, there is no auto adjust whatsoever.

[ssbfalcon]

I could have sworn there was some subtle form of it... I guess it was just the angle I was going into the loops from...

But I guess that it would be good to have auto adjust in, only because it would allow for some more interesting loop patterns without sacrificing the sense of total control over the loops.

Although, I'm still curious as to whether just increasing the width of the loops would be good enough...

[Quexinos]

hey I have a question. In the latest build I can only get the "vomit" camera. Did you guys get rid of the other one or am I not doing it right?

Streak Thunderstorm, that looks like fun. You should upload it when it's done.

[Xoram]

How about putting some railings at the side of these small loops? Not high railings, just something that prevents you from accidentally falling out of the loop.

[Damizean]

Why everyone keeps having problems with the loops? Just go straight to the loop and don't move the character. The loop triangle normals change the direcction of Sonic correctly in order to get into the loop, so you don't need to rotate by yourself.

[Spike]

I have never had a loop work properly, and I always just go straight at it while holding forward.

[ssbfalcon]

Why everyone keeps having problems with the loops? Just go straight to the loop and don't move the character. The loop triangle normals change the direcction of Sonic correctly in order to get into the loop, so you don't need to rotate by yourself.

It's because you don't have very precise control with the keyboard. It feels really clunky to try to make proper movements at that speed. It's hard to run into a loop off of a turn and expect to be straight (especially when you use relatively realistic physics, more on that later...)

There's a reason why Mario 64 was so critically acclaimed by everyone... Analog controls provided smoother and more accurate controls than Mouse and keyboard in a 3d platforming game... Keyboard controls just won't cut it unless you spend enough time tuning the controls. And I doubt there has been enough time/focus on that...

Even SRB2 is worlds better when you use an analog gamepad.

Sure, the physics and such in what you guys showed are great, and probably pretty accurate, but more people like the controls of Burnout than in Forza 2...

That, and seriously, those tech demo levels are rather far from what an actual level should be if someone were to make an actual level with Sonic moving that fast...

[Shadow Hog]

Even SRB2 is worlds better when you use an analog gamepad.

That's hardly a fact. Analog mode always struck me as at best largely broken, and WASD+mouse wildly improve the game for me. Not to mention, good luck playing Match mode on a gamepad.

[Quexinos]

Why everyone keeps having problems with the loops? Just go straight to the loop and don't move the character. The loop triangle normals change the direcction of Sonic correctly in order to get into the loop, so you don't need to rotate by yourself.

I'm actually glad you feel this way. I can understand some people wanting something so they don't fall out of the loops, but you get used to them after a while. I'd rather you just stick with it the way it is or maybe have some loops in the beginning that hold you in place then later on they get more complex. Just a thought.

[Damizean]

There's a reason why Mario 64 was so critically acclaimed by everyone... Analog controls provided smoother and more accurate controls than Mouse and keyboard in a 3d platforming game...

Except that what you said is a big blatant lie. Of course Mario 64 was critically acclaimed, but that was due the fact they innovated in terms of gameplad control, wich used an analog stick that allowed you to point to any direction instead of the fixed 8 directions that the previous gen pads had. But mouse movement has been the most accurate way to play (if correctly implemented) a game since ever, wich is the point why all the games that require precission use mouse look (why hello there, FPS).

I know the mouse configuration used on the engine isn't the best (at least the early builds, I've enhanced it a lot with the customizable input system, but it's just tricky to configure), but saying that mouse look + WASD is less precisse than analog means you never ever tryied enough. A good example of that is playing SRB2 in analog mode, and then using the mouse look. There's a world of difference between those.

You just never had any problems with most platform that use gamepad because:

a) They're slow

The camera is on rails, wich almost completely nullifies the skills factor in most cases (as analog movement is based upon camera's pitch value).

[BlazeHedgehog]

Why everyone keeps having problems with the loops? Just go straight to the loop and don't move the character. The loop triangle normals change the direcction of Sonic correctly in order to get into the loop, so you don't need to rotate by yourself.

Remember, Damizean: Just because you can do it doesn't mean everybody else can. You're one of the development staff behind this game. You've had lots of practice and you know the intricate details of how the engine works.

We, however, don't. This isn't just something I'm saying directly to you, either - this is something all of SFGHQ has to remember. Just because you think your game is easy doesn't mean the general public is going to have it easy. You built the game, and you are very intimate with how it functions.

Go easy on those of us who are newbies (But not too easy!)