Sonic the Hedgehog - New Screenshots! (Shadow is finally seen!)

[DimensionWarped]

Last I checked, no one ever wanted them to get rid of running.

[Aaron C-T]

I think he meant hunting. o.O?

"so they created the 3 team system instead of a bunch of separate stories."

Which would've worked better. And then they got to use the "omb 3 players at once gimmick." Not very series-respecting at all imo. >.>

[Pheonix Gamma]

ah. I meant hunting. My mind was in another place when I typed that.

[tentril]

I liked hunting. If you knew how to do it, it could be as fast as Sonic/Shadow levels.

[Rael0505]

I liked the SA emerald hunting, but it wasn't as good in SA2.

[Eraysor]

"...Sonic has never had 'continuity'."

... Haha. What about Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles. There was obviously no sort of relation between those two games.

Are you suggesting those games had a fleshed out plot? All they did was ran into each other as a reason for changing the zones. That was it. Unless you actually think there was a plot there to continue, because in my mind a plot with that little development doesn't exist.

Also, not all games are even meant to have the ridiculous amount of plot that the FF series has. It's been a hallmark of that series since its creation, whereas Sonic has always been gameplay. Hell, they can't even get that right anymore.

[ila]

Actually Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were supposed to be one game anyway. But in spirit Sonic 2 and 3K were all part of a connected storyline. Not that it matters much, this game is still on my "meh" list.

[Aaron C-T]

Ila: I know about how they were supposed to be connected, but it didn't end up being that so way.

Eraysor: Just because the story wasn't "fleshed out" doesn't mean a story wasn't present. And I honestly don't see what's wrong with having something that actually makes it seem like there's a purpose to the game. And no, I didn't suggest that the plot was "fleshed out," because that isn't what you said. You're exact stament was that they "never had 'continuity'." Which they have. Just because a story isn't deep or overly involving doesn't mean it's not there. It just takes a back seat. However in 3D games that's happening less and less unless the game is centered ALL around gameplay, which Sonic is not. Hell they even had the little "minicutscenes" in S3&K/S&K, granted there were no words, but it was still there.

And if they're going to make 3D Sonic story-oriented (and that was the direction they took with Sonic's first 3D outing- SA) then they should do so in a manner that actually makes sense and isn't just "let's write a story for this game, but don't fix any plotholes or work on it too hard because the next game won't have anything to do with it", regardless of what the original Sonic games did and did not do. Things change. When it comes to things like art and the like "don't fix it if it ain't broke" doesn't always apply. When they made Sonic Adventure they made the choice that they would write storylines that would be built upon and influence what you do in the game, and they shouldn't half-ass that decision. So honestly, even Sonic 2-Sonic & Knuckles didn't have any sort of continuity it wouldn't matter. This isn't the '90s, this isn't 2D and this isn't oldschool- this is the direction Sonic has been going in and if they're going to do it they should do it right regardless of what was done in the past. Sonic Team can't just randomly yank story, because a great deal of their fans that came in during the Dreamcast or Gamecube era have come to expect it in the games. It's a matter of doing crap right.

[VectorSatyr]

Things change.... This isn't the '90s, this isn't 2D and this isn't oldschool- this is the direction Sonic has been going in and if they're going to do it they should do it right regardless of what was done in the past.

I've been saying this all along.

[Guest Shadix]

Things change.... This isn't the '90s, this isn't 2D and this isn't oldschool- this is the direction Sonic has been going in and if they're going to do it they should do it right regardless of what was done in the past.

You are aware this arguement excuses Shadow, right? Going the way of the flow is not always the best way, it makes society narrowminded to where everything just starts to lose it's flavor.

[Aaron C-T]

.. It doesn't excuse Shadow. >.>

Well.. not as far as story goes, which is what I was talking about. For crying out loud the story comprised of "black, badass counterpart fights alien attack with tons of guns." That's nowhere near original, and is very cliched (attacking aliens for gods' sake). I see what you mean about the gun thing.. and umm.. I never had a problem with that anyway. So.. I don't really care if it excuses the "omb Shadow has a gun thing." Yes, I suppose if applied to the games in general, it does. However, Shadow the hedgehog was uber slippery, and some things about it were just really annoying (for me anyway). And the story wasn't very original at all- at least not the base of it.

So.. in the grand scope of things.. no.. Shadow isn't excused by this argument at all. Although I have no idea of what you're post is trying to say. I would think that Shadow would have been a game that "went with the flow" of violent gaming, but you said that my argument excuses it.. and my argument was for originality. Clarify.

[VectorSatyr]

You are aware this arguement excuses Shadow, right?

Yes, I am aware of that. My opinions about Shadow have no reflection on the reality of SEGA's abillities. Also, if you haven't noticed, this is how society is anyways. It's just Americanization taking its course yet again.

[Aaron C-T]

But it doesn't excuse Shadow, unless I'm missing something. I never said they should "go with the flow" of what's hot and what isn't. I simply said if they're going to do something they should do it right. No idea how that excuses Shadow.

[VectorSatyr]

Oh, right. What was I thinking? O_o

[Serephim]

"Mushroom Hill - (n/a)" ::gasp:: Frog Forest, man. No idea how you missed that. I actually liked that level despite the fact that trying to swing on that vine with the horrible camera angle was the worst thing ever. I think one of reasons I liked it so much was because I kept going "omb Mushroom Hill.. yay!"

"Sandolopis - (Indoors inside a dark pyramid with freaking ghosts. Cool.)"

There was that level in SA2 where Knuckles/Rouge was inside of a pyramid and you had to fight a Mario-esque ghost. And levels for Tails/Robotnik on the way to the period.

"Launch Base - (n/a)" Metal Harbor, possibly? It took place on an ocean, and that rocket was launched. Using Hidden Palace isn't fair because it wasn't actually released.

i was thinking of comparing Metal Harbor to Lunch Base, but it really diddnt fit Launch Base that much. I really felt like Metal Harbor was more of a side level to me in SA2. i really diddnt like how amazingly short it was, most likely because there wasnt much to do with the level besides what they did. (which goes back to my point of having realistic stages. Either they diddnt know what else to do with the level, or they just half assed it on the length side.) Still a great level though.

I completely forgot about Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace. I loved them both. as a matter of fact, those 2, the Egg Fleet stages, and Mystic Manor stages were my favroite stages. If only the gameplay diddnt get repetitive, Heroes would have Pwned the others IMO. (not SA2/SA though, the story was too bad for that.)

But i do give Sonic Team credit for Sonic Heroes. People complained about the plastic character models, but they were SOOOOOOOOO much better than the SA2/SA/ShtH graphics, and the game looked really really nice. You can tell they put time into making the game. My only complaint is how bad they effed up Shadow's mode/running animation (GOD he ran SOOO much cooler in SA2. They did real nice with Sonic but screwed shadow over.) and how ____ing stupid team rose was.

Really, all i want them to do is start from scratch. I was reading a Sonic X comic when i passed by Borders in the mall yesterday (i usually ignore them but this one cought me) , it involved Robotnick trapping sonic, tails, knuckles and Rouge in a machine that basically ran them through all the stages of Sonic 1. It was great to see all of the characters actully act like they arnt worthless people with stupid Voice Overs (OMFG TAILS CAN ACTULLY FIGHT AGAIN WDF WOW.). By the end of the comic the human kid and his grandpa (forgot names) found robotnicks lair and woke up sonic, and everyone got out (really halfassed but i was satasfied.)

[Aaron C-T]

I saw that same comic and went "wow.. nostalgia, but wtf random."

"If only the gameplay diddnt get repetitive, Heroes would have Pwned the others IMO. (not SA2/SA though, the story was too bad for that.)"

What does that leave? Like.. Shadow? Unless you're including the oldschool games as well. And umm.. I thought the models in Shadow were there same?

[Guest Shadix]

Scatta: I'm terribly sorry, I misread your arguement. I thought you were trying to be overly-optimistic of the game and putting every bit of faith into SEGA after being failed like 3 times while maintaining the EXACT SAME optimistic view. I see you are talking about continuity and originality. (Not that imitating FF is any more original than alien killing as a gangsta hedgehog with gunz [especially the "OMG LETS RAPE CULTURES LITERATURE AND MYTHOS" attitude] ...)

Seraph: Did you even read my big post ;-;... It took quite a while to correct everything.

---

Few pages back from a quote from a quote to a post Scatta made regarding Hidden Pallace being unfair.

I've noticed people lose fact of that because of how much we see it around the Sonic communities.

I've noticed that in this losing of fact people start to forget that S3K had a level called a 1 act level called Hidden Pallace, which is what Seraph was refering to.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I don't think SA2 was a failure. I think it was average, and Heroes was Mediocre. Shadow was a failure, yes. But I think failure is a tad much for SA2 and Heroes.

[Eraysor]

Yeah, I agree with PG. They were distinctly average, but Shadow was below that.

[Serephim]

I definately read it, but diddnt feel like responding because it would involve me typing 7 paragraphs.

Not a HARD thing to do, but just not now. You were right on some things though.

Although i dont think Heroes' repetitiveness came from the stages. It came from the lack of things to DO in the stages. (besides fight.)

-------------

AND I JUST REALLY WANTED TO CLEAR THIS UP...

What the hell is with Tails in the new sonic games?

Sure, the kid is young, but he was never USELESS. The new sonic games have completely shunned Tails and put Knuckles above him, and i really never liked Knuckles that much.

In Sonic Adventure all his stages involve racing sonic. What the hell. (it was really fun to play as him, but STILL what the hell.)

SA2, hes useless. Although WITHOUT tails on like each and every sonic game they would never save the planet/stop robotnick, but they just ruined him so freaking bad.

I still have no clue how KNUCKLES ended up FASTER than tails, when not only is Tails a MUCH faster animal, he can freaking fly....And stay on speed with sonic.

Its half the reason im making my Tails game now. Tails was cool back then, now hes a freaking _____.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I liked SA1's levels because they felt dynamic. First level was pretty straight foward (although the killer whale was pretty pimp.) But then the levels started to change a bit. Windy Valley had the tornado and a long roller coaster path, which, while ridiculously easy (just hold foward) it was fun to see how fast you could go.

Then later you had Twinkle Park, which started with the minikarts (why does Sonic need one? He can outrun them >_>) then you hop on the rollercoaster, then some awesome platforming. Ice Cap was really cool (the caves were fun. Knocking down the icicle, then shooting down the mountain on the snowboard with the avalance behind you and eggman's ships infront)

Then you had Sky Base or whatever. That level was insane. I loved running on the bridges with the gun shooting you, cause the way the camera panned to the side made it feel really cool and fun. Then you go to the part of the ship loaded with turrents, which was awesome (I wish SA2's combo counter was in it, just to see how large a combo I could get) then eventually the whole stage is titling around.

I liked SA's levels cause they kept things interesting. Heroes felt really monotonous. I loved that they made them long. I really like a level that is long, but they made them a tad too long, and way too repeptative. (Can't move foward? Kill everyone, then pull a switch or something. Now runs some more. Now we gotta stop you so you can fight some more.) That, and they weren't just thin floating rollercoaster tracks that are too easy to fall off of that wouldn't actually exist in the real world. Emeral Coast is a beach, not floating platforms. City Escape in SA2 was good, too.

I watched footage of this game's Kingdom Valley. Looks like it tries to shake things up, but I have a few complaints:

Sonic runs full sprint, jumps, lands on a rope, and stops dead in his tracks, then jumps upwards. Wouldn't the momentum cause him to fall OFF of the rope? I know it's silly, but it pisses me off whenever I see it.

Looks like homing is as unreliable as ever. The guy playing died a lot because of the homing attack going completely arwy, or a weird glitch were he would somehow get stuck on a ledge and then get unstuck and fall to his doom. Or the Light Speed Dash screwing up (it ALWAYS screwed me over in SA2. I mean...what the hell? And then sometimes I'd have the electric shield, so I go to do the Dash, and the first 3 rings are pulled towards me and I died. 5 bucks says that the Light Speed Dash screws me over in this game.) I predict many falls to my doom.

Silver looks a little TOO slow. I know he's combat based, but I hate playing a game where the character moves too slow, and I got mad at Silver just watching the video. Plus, his powers seem to work ala Star Wars Ep3 (bending the metal thingers like springboards only works if the little mark is on them, so if I find one just like it later on, but without a mark, I can't use it.)

Basically, I liked SA and SA2's running levels, and that was it. It's called SONIC the hedgehog, not "Sonic and Friends." Sonic and Knuckles focused on Sonic and Knuckles. Sonic and Tails had Sonic and Tails. Sonic the Hedgehog should focus soley on Sonic the hedgehog. Maybe throw in some cameos, maybe unlockable characters, but I should be playing as Sonic for the entire main adventure.

[Guest Shadix]

AND I JUST REALLY WANTED TO CLEAR THIS UP...

What the hell is with Tails in the new sonic games?

Sure, the kid is young, but he was never USELESS. The new sonic games have completely shunned Tails and put Knuckles above him, and i really never liked Knuckles that much.

In Sonic Adventure all his stages involve racing sonic. What the hell. (it was really fun to play as him, but STILL what the hell.)

SA2, hes useless. Although WITHOUT tails on like each and every sonic game they would never save the planet/stop robotnick, but they just ruined him so freaking bad.

I still have no clue how KNUCKLES ended up FASTER than tails, when not only is Tails a MUCH faster animal, he can freaking fly....And stay on speed with sonic.

Its half the reason im making my Tails game now. Tails was cool back then, now hes a freaking _____.

I agree with you completely, Tails has been completely bastardized, turned into a little annoying brat (and completely helpless, at least in SA he had confidence and courage even if he was struggling.)

PG: That's what I've been saying, that video of Silver was freaking annoying. He was WAY too slow and he had combat and obstacle interrupts every few seconds.

[Aaron C-T]

Umm.. I don't believe you have to play as Silver unless you want to (assuming this is like SA, and I thought it was ::shrug:. And yes! THAT is the reason I loved SA, the levels were just 20x more awesome on the joygasm scale.

As far as "it's Sonic the Hedgehog" and not "Sonic and Friends".. meh I disagree. Well.. sorta. See Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 had Tails and Knuckles, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Unless it's this game. I'd much prefer Tails, Knuckles, and Amy as playable "friends" in this game. But meh.. whatever.

[Pheonix Gamma]

True, Scatta, but Tails was the same as Sonic, really, cept he could fly and swim. Knux glided and climbed and had his own alternate passages. But really the three were all really the same.

SA, Tails was the same way, but Knux was all about hunting, plus the Amy, Gamma, and Big missions.

Then Tails became about shooting, which is silly, because Tails was never about shooting. Ever.

Then Heroes crammed a little too many characters in. I don't want Big, Cream, of Charmy even IN my game. It just seemed like SEGA said "let's put as many characters as we can in the game." They should have just made it about Sonic, Tails, and Knux, and made a bunch of levels for that one team. Then throw in some solo levels.

So when I see "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG" and saw only Sonic, I was happy. Then I saw Silver and Shadow...Sonic doesn't NEED another rival, and you'd think Sega would kill off Poochie....err...Shadow....already. Sheesh.

I'm just saying that They should stick with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Robotnik, and have little cameos every so often, but nothing major. Maybe Amy would pester Sonic, or the Chaotix would fight alongside Sonic in a level. No Shadow, no Silver. No Jet or whatever.

Sonic doesn't need more rivals. First there was just Sonic and Robotnik. Then Metal Sonic made things a bit interesting, though the whole "character whose sole purpose is to imitate the main character" thing is a bit stupid, IMO. Then Knuckles was created, and he was actually pretty cool in that he wasn't an evil guy, just misguided. Then Shadow comes, who's kinda cool but got really lame in later appearances. Then Jet is all "LISTEN TO MY ANNOYING VOICE." Now Silver is all "I'm gonna kill you Ilibis Trigger!"

Stop giving Sonic rivals. Stop adding more generic characters. Just...stop >.<

[Andrew]

i was thinking of comparing Metal Harbor to Lunch Base

Haha.