Sonic the Hedgehog - New Screenshots! (Shadow is finally seen!)

[Eraysor]

Haha.

I loled when I read that the first time...

One of the reasons SA was better than the others was the fact that it kept the old badnik style rather than crappy generic robots.

[DimensionWarped]

Except... the robots didn't really do anything. I don't think I got hit by a single robot during any of my playthroughs as Sonic in SA. Spikes and things got me plenty... but never the robots.

Lately I'm seeing a hell of a lot of comparisons of Shadow to poochie from that episode of the Simpsons...

I shouldn't have to mention this, but the key thing about Poochie that led to his demise was that he was never liked. Shadow has legions of fans and Shadow has always had legions of fans.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Poochie was Itchy and Scratchy's Jumping the Shark moment. Same for Shadow and Sonic.

[Eraysor]

Except... the robots didn't really do anything. I don't think I got hit by a single robot during any of my playthroughs as Sonic in SA. Spikes and things got me plenty... but never the robots.

Good point. XD

[DimensionWarped]

Poochie was Itchy and Scratchy's Jumping the Shark moment. Same for Shadow and Sonic.

Uh... no. Jumping the shark is when a show has an important event and then goes permanently down hill. Itchy and Scratchy's ratings were reported to jump back to normal after the removal of poochie as did the humor style and everything else.

[Pheonix Gamma]

ok, well not jumping the shark, but it was a cheap ploy to try to invigorate the show. Much like Scrappy Doo, that Cousin in the Brady Bunch, etc. Usually after that, the show starts to decline in quality. Likewise, Shadow is added, and the franchise started to go downhill. Sonic Heroes, Shadow, the portable games.

[DimensionWarped]

Plenty of people consider the series to have started going downhill after 3K. Hell, there was something like a 5 year drought without any games at all really.

[Guest Shadix]

and there are also those people who think that Sonic 3\K pales in comparison to Sonic 2... Which is as untrue as the word gets ;-;.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Plenty of people consider the series to have started going downhill after 3K. Hell, there was something like a 5 year drought without any games at all really.

Caused by lack of great consoles and console sales. Had Saturn been more successful, we'd have seen more Sonic (like Sonic X-treme and what have you)

I just spent a while playing SA2B, and I do enjoy the running levels....now...when I first played them, they felt impossible. Now they feel kinda fun, though short. I just like making impossible combos and the like. But I still hope the next game goes back to SA1's level style.

[Eraysor]

I have to say, Scrappy Doo is the worst character ever created in the history of anything. I mean, there may be minor characters that are worse, but the fact he is on TV so often makes me cringe.

[Aaron C-T]

PG: Yea.. suure. The same. Which is why playing with Tails in a water level is so much more awesome than with Sonic. I mean.. yes they're the same basic character with different abilities. So what? It's not strictly the abilites that make them different. Go back and play S&K sure they're the same basic character but those few extra abilities go a long way in making them vastly different because of the levels and the way those abilities are used. Sonic could use the fire, electric, and water shields in different ways (bubble bounce and the fire dash); Tails could swim and fly allowing him to get higher than Sonic or Knuckles could, and making water levels a great deal easier. Knuckles could climb, glide, and break through walls that the other characters couldn't, and yet he sometimes couldn't get as high as Tails could. Some levels sent Knuckles on a different path than the rest of the team (Angel Island, Mushroom Hill Zone, etc). The differences in abilites may have been small but in the grand scheme of the way they could be used in conjuction with the level design made them much, much more significant than you give them credit for. As I said go back and play some S3&K and S&K and look at how far those abilities actually go.

Now take those things and imagine what they could be in a 3D title. Knuckles was given the ability to fight in SA and to swim in SA2, And Tails can do the tail whip attack. Granted if Tails was used in a 3D title his differences from Sonic wouldn't be that big a deal: he'd be a tad slower (but faster than Knuckles), he'd be able to swim (same as before), do the tail whip attack, and fly to areas others can't. Knuckles would be a completely different character than in the old games: he can fight (hopefully this would be expanded upon greatly), he's slower than Tails (I would imagine), he can climb, break through walls and rock, dig, and swim. With all those taken into a count and possibly the return of the flame and water shields the characters would once again be vastly different- moreso than before. And when it came time to design levels that would be something that should be payed attention to specifically if you'd put some of the characters through levels that other characters had access to.

As far as rivals, I believe they're needed but not the way that the developers are currently doing it. Dr. Robotnik just isn't as big a threat as he used to be because there have been other threats at work that have made him seem less-than-badass. In SA it was Chaos, in SA2 it was GUN, in SH it was Metal Sonic, and in StH it was a horde of aliens. If you can defeat an onslaught of aliens, I'm not so sure that some fat guy in a floating chair is going to do much damage. So throw in a few more "bad guys." The problem with this is that for Sonic Team/SEGA, bad guys translates to "a character that rivals Sonic in every single way." That's not cool. They should take the time to develop a character that is different from any of the other ones. In my opinion Silver, would indeed be that character. He doesn't fit the mold that Metal Sonic or Shadow fit- he's not a foil. He's slower and he uses telekinetic(sp?) abilities. At least Silver is more than "I'm just like you- HAH!" He's traveled back in time to stop Sonic from doing something horrible- which also means that Sonic, unlike in the last few games is still the center of focus. He's at the dead-middle of the storyline, he's the one that the majority of characters are depending on/against. We don't know what Shadow is doing, but it doesn't matter so far. Sonic's the one who rescues Elise, he's the one who will be doing the triggering, and he's the reason Silver time traveled. My only problem with Silver is that he is a hedgehog and his design isn't exactly great. So far I'm fine with him.. granted I would prefer Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails but if Silver is what it somehow takes for Sonic Team to once again make Sonic the focus, that's fine by me. At least he plays differently, unlike certain other characters.

And umm no. Don't say something that idiotic. Shadow was not the decline of the series. SA2 was a decent game, and at the end of SA2 I liked the Shadow. What I didn't like was that he was randomly brought back. And having him brought back wasn't even the thing that made the 3D games die. It was the idiocy of the devs. I mean come on... 4 different teams.. 12 different characters. And they are all exactly the same, playing the exact same levels. It wasn't even a Sonic game towars levels like Mystic Mansion. Run, stop, beat the crap out of badniks before you can move on? When has that ever been something a Sonic game outside of Sonic Rush? And, I'm not gonna lie, I LIKED that sort of thing in Sonic Rush, but that's because it wasn't done every time you ran into a new room. Shadow had little to do with the decline outside of creating a spinoff game. SH was a bad idea in itself.

[Pheonix Gamma]

uhh...in SA2, it was Shadow...Shadow was Sonic's rival because they were equal but opposite.

Basically, the rivals are/were: Knux, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Jet, and now Silver (which, I guess, would be the roster for Sonic Rivals...sans Jet)

The stopping to fight in Sonic Rush is different because you didn't have enemies that needed to be flipped, or punched, or shot at while flying. You jump on them or speed through them, and it lasted a couple of second.

SH wasn't a bad idea, they just executed it all wrong. Had they stuck with Team Sonic and just given them a bunch of levels, some extra solo levels maybe, and toned down the fighting (when in the Genesis games did Sonic, Tails, or Knux ever have to stop running to fight a horde of enemies, aside from bosses?) Then I think it could have been really good.

When I mean STK (getting too lazy to type >.<) were the same in genesis games, I meant their goal was to run and jump to get to the finish. Tails and Knux had their quirks that made them different (flight, swim, glide, climb, etc) and Knux had his alternate paths, and that was fine.

Then the 3D era comes, and Tails is still pretty much the same (run, jump, fly, etc to the end, only in a race) but Knux was less about running, jumping, etc. to the goal, but all about hunting. He was also a tad slower. Then Tails was in a fecking mech...

So then Heroes comes, and all Tails is really good for is flying and shooting stuff down (do they HAVE to all hold on like that in flight formation? Seems kinda silly.) And Knux thankfully got faster a tad (though not too fast) but became more fighting oriented, which is just fine.

I'm just saying that if Tails and Knux were to be in another Sonic game, Tails should be as he was in SA1, and Knux should be as he was in SH, and Sonic should stop falling off of goddamn cliffs so often.

[Serephim]

okay look.

Reading through 2 comics in one day (that nostlogic Sonic X comic and one of the Sonic the Hedgehog comics), i think that the people doing the comics should be directing the freaking games.

As far as rivals go in the comics (and they should go this way in ALL the games), sonic gets a rival. (awsome green hedgehog, like all hedgehogs, share his speed trait and ability to roll through stuff.) Sonic n Pals BEAT the rival hedgehog and his gang of people. Rivals are defeated and dont come back.

....UNLESS, its like 10 or 20 issues later. 3D sonic games have an issue of holding on to their "badass" rivals / evil people.

I seriously, SERIOUSLY dont understand WHY they made shadow come back, and i SERRRRIOUUSLLLY cant understand how they think that Foxes are slower than freaking echidnias and chameleons (let alone hedgehogs, but thats beside the point).

The reason they stopped using robotnick is because i believe that they made a mistake having Robotnick and the heroes team up at the end of EVERY freaking sonic game. It gives the illusion that robotnick actully LIKES sonic, because in all truth he f**king hates him.

The end of the old sonic games involved sonic fighting this really, really, really powerful robot at the end, and now hes ending up fighting the result of a really badly planned PLOT that they tried to implement. (Only exceptions being Chaos and Final Hazard.)

I (in all truth) am not all that excited with Sonic the Hedgehog, because first off they havent explained of Starfish Head is evil or not.

I have a really bad feeling (I know you know its going to happen as well, but i wonder if it really will..) that Starfish Head and sonic will be enemies, team up like Shadow and Sonic did in SA2, and fight the monster that they 'Iblis Triggered' onto the planet. (Super Sonic and Super Starfishhead.)

It really sucks that sonic team cant come up with a better plot. I would really, really, REALLY love for them to like come up with another badass Hedgehog/Fox or something that has this really cool ability (besides telekinesis and Chaos Control and crap like that, its getting old.), and like is able to whip sonic 'n pal's asses.

Then, at the end when they do the inevitable "super power of friendship" super sonic scene, it can be Super Sonic vs. Super evil Hedgehog/Fox guy, and then sonic can kill him and have him like sent to some hellish place or something..

..Then make another game and do it the same way, but like maybe the villians team up with Robotnick or someone and all decide to take over the planet together.

Another thing that im starting to find out what is ruining the sonic plots and (inevitably) giving its the same "team up with bad guy to kill super beast the bad guys created" ending is that they keep making it so that you can play a "Hero" and a "Dark" side. if you play a Dark Side, you get attached to the players and they decide never to ditch them.

[Aaron C-T]

PG: Wow.. I completely misunderstood your post. xD But umm.. they still need to bring back the shields. xD

"is that they keep making it so that you can play a "Hero" and a "Dark" side. if you play a Dark Side, you get attached to the players and they decide never to ditch them."

Haha. They don't want to make you win a final boss, just so that in the cutscene afterward you get beat down. But meh.. they're idiots. Hopefully this game will be better. >.>

[Pheonix Gamma]

But...the fire shield would be useless, cause you have the homing attack. Same with bubble shield (the bounce ring. Wiether or not it's a buyable move in the game is yet to be seen)

No electric shield. It screws up light speed dash and makes me a very angry PG. And since that move is already in the game...

I hate the new archie sonic comics. Sonic X is basically that garbage you see in Disney Adventures, and I hate the usual penciler who does the comics (why can't Spaz do it? Although Tracy Yardly did a good job on the Scourge issue and the Sonic Riders ministory. Though I still dislike his Sonic X work. Spaz+Harvo all the way)

[DimensionWarped]

I seriously, SERIOUSLY dont understand WHY they made shadow come back, and i SERRRRIOUUSLLLY cant understand how they think that Foxes are slower than freaking echidnias and chameleons (let alone hedgehogs, but thats beside the point).

I seriously, SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSSSSLY, SERIOUSSSSLAFALUKILUFULUCKILY don't understand how you can get so worked up over plot elements in a game that doesn't really depend on plot for much of anything. I seriously, SERIOUSLY, SERPOIJAPFJDLFKJPALSKJFPLKFJPAKSJFPASKJFPAHGPOASIFHPOISAJFLKPASJDOPKJFLKJASPOFHODSFHASKFHPASOIFHOPKASPOAKHFOPIASHFDPOASHFPOGHPOASIDHPOADJFLY don't understand how you can use comic books as a highlight for what things should be.

[Eraysor]

I don't understand how you can attempt to gauge the speed of cartoon animals.

[Aaron C-T]

"But...the fire shield would be useless, cause you have the homing attack. Same with bubble shield (the bounce ring. Wiether or not it's a buyable move in the game is yet to be seen)

No electric shield. It screws up light speed dash and makes me a very angry PG. And since that move is already in the game..."

'Tis a good point. Although, IMO light speed dash isn't really all that great of a move. It was fine in SA but after awhile it's just the same thing over and over again. You don't really DO anything but walk up to the trail of rings and press A. I'd much rather have the electric shield. As for the fire shield.. it can easily be used for another character who can't do the homing attack (Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Silver [not sure]) to give them the homing ability. As for the bubble shield.. same thing.. it can be used to give the bounce ability to characters who can't use the bounce ring, or it can simply be used so that you don't have to run around underwater trying to find air.. that is assuming Sonic Team gets smart and gives us back our water levels (Hydrocity was so awesome, wtf). Or they could, ::gasp::, make new shields that gave different abilites depending on who's using it.

[Pheonix Gamma]

You'd rather have the light speed dash when the trail of rings is the ONLY thing crossing a giant pool of death. Especially if you just spent all your time doing a perfect run to get an A.

And the move is already in the game anyways :E

[Aaron C-T]

"You'd rather have the light speed dash when the trail of rings is the ONLY thing crossing a giant pool of death."

Meh.. giant pools of death isn't exactly top-notch level design. >.>

[DimensionWarped]

They did some pretty intriguing stuff in SA2 with light dash... what with having trails of rings in midair that you have to leap to and all. Sucked with the lightning shield though...

[Pheonix Gamma]

Right. I liked taking down a bunch of baddies in a combo and finishing it with a lightspeed dash. Still do. Makes me feel cool

I wish you could jump like Sonic does in the Sonic Heroes intro from wall to wall. You sorta did it in SA, but that was only on the numberpads, which was used twice and felt silly.

[Aaron C-T]

DW: Ah.. I see.. I guess I forgot about the stuff in SA2. It's been awhile, I guess.

"I wish you could jump like Sonic does in the Sonic Heroes intro from wall to wall. You sorta did it in SA, but that was only on the numberpads, which was used twice and felt silly."

Yes.. you should be allowed to do that. It would own.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Yea, go Play Crazy Gadget to see what I mean about the pool of death...and the part where the rings go around in outerspace >_>

The jumpy thing wouldn't have to be just with walls, but rocks and debris and the like

::imagines blowing up a giant robot, then using the chunks of left over metal to reach a hidden ledge::

::imagines hawt cawffee on the ledge...with omochao...::

[DimensionWarped]

I always liked that part with the empty area of doom and the rings... but that might have something to do with me never having fallen into it. It's actually kinda hard to fall into it unless you do something silly like jump before you get to the ledge.