Serephim Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Okay scatta, i said the more Realistic sonic games get, the worse they get. I turned around and said "Shadow the Hedgehog was fun enough" because i had fun playing through it... When i mean their going to get worse , i mean that with more realisitc environments and storylines, most of the things sonic games are all about wont exist anymore. Lets look at S3&K... Angel Island Hydrocity Marble Garden Carnival Night Ice Cap Launch Base Mushroom Hill Flying Battery Sandolopis Lava Reef Hidden Palace Sky Sanctuary Death Egg Now, if Sonic Team was to COMPLETELY Remake S3&K, imagine what those stages would look like. Now compare those to the stages in the current games. Thats what im talking about. Its not really that the games get more realistic, its just that Sonic Team is losing the creativity that they had before with their stages. Comparing i can just put it like this Angel Island - Green Forest / White Forest (SA2) Hydrocity - (n/a) Marble Garden - (n/a) Carnival Night - Casinopolis (SA) "the casino stage i hated" (Heroes) Ice Cap - Ice Cap (SA) Launch Base - (n/a) Mushroom Hill - (n/a) Flying Battery - Final Fortress? not really. Sky Deck? kind of.(heroes, SA1) Sandolopis - (n/a) Lava Reef - Red Mountian, except not entirely underground (SA) Hidden Palace - i would say Lost World, but nah. (n/a, or SA1) Sky Sanctuary - (n/a. sickens me, this stage design was awsome) Death Egg - end of every sonic game so far besides Shadow and SA1. SA1 followed more closely to the stage format of the old games, IMO. (Which might explain why i like it, but not sure.) Sonic Heroes i think did an awsome job with level design to me, but something (i STILL dont know what made that game boring) threw it off. Maybe the fact that Act 2 of each stage in Heroes was bascically the exact same stage, which made the game real repetitive. In the old games, (mainly Sonic 3/ Sonic & Knuckles), Act 2 of each stage followed the same theme, but was something different to look at. S3&K act differences (follows "Act one - Act 2 differences" format) Angel Island - Angel Island on Fire Hydrocity - (n/a, diddnt notice much difference besides being indoors) Marble Garden - (n/a, i hated that stage anyway) Carnival Night - (water was added, and the power even gets shut off) Ice Cap - Outdoors, underwater cave Launch Base - Ocean added Mushroom Hill - Fall type setting, and the end of act2 had a Winter like setting, all the leaves were dead or something. Flying Battery - (n/a, also kinda hated that stage) Sandolopis - (Indoors inside a dark pyramid with freaking ghosts. Cool.) Lava Reef - (n/a, 1 act long. but the lava cools. awsome.) Hidden Palace -(n/a, 1 act long. I WISH they would redo this in 3D.) Sky Sanctuary - (i actully dont remember if this stage had 2 acts or not...) Death Egg - (Outside the Death Egg, you can see space + some gravity tricks) all the second acts of Heroes were the same, and if they were different i could barely tell. ----- Oh, and anotehr reason Sonic Adventure was so good is because it was the ONLY 3D sonic game they made where the stage isnt completely strightfoward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadix Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Errr....wtf...SONIC bosses, gentlemen. I hate SONIC BOSSES. I love good bosses. Like ones in Mischief Makers or Shadow of the Collossus. And Zelda. And a LOT of other games. I just hated every SONIC boss. kthxbi EDIT: 'cept for Sonic Rush. Sonic Rush's boss battles kinda blew, if only because they seemed to all be repeats and the boss strategies didn't vary much. (The giant robo was awesome, but that was already an established concept.) Seraph: Hang Castle - Mystic Mansion (Outdoor to indoor, heck, Mystic Mansion was like a completely different level)? Egg Fleet - Final Fortress (Day time to Night and stormy)? The Casino levels were different in each act. Seaside Hill was all beachy, Ocean Palace was more ruinslike. The only levels that I can see where you say they don't vary are the 3 sets I didn't mention, including the mushroom hill remake. You also seem to haven't played S3K in a while. -Angel Island is on fire during part of the first act too. -Hydrocity starts getting more pretty and palace-like look in Act 2. -Marble Garden's background changes and the level operates alot differently (I think there are tile changes as well). -Flying Battery has some minor tile changes. -Lava Reef was 2 acts, the first act was all firey-volcano like and the 2nd act was bluish in hue and was almost a completely different level, like the lava is trapped in ice. It changes again to even more firey at the bossfight, and then the lava cools off into dark ash after you beat it -Sky Sanctuary was indeed 1 act. Edit: Filling out your chart a bit with informative stuffs Angel Island - Green Forest / White Forest (SA2) They could merely base it off of Mystic Ruins if they were to do something this idiotic. Hydrocity - (n/a) Marble Garden - (n/a) Carnival Night - Casinopolis (SA) "the casino stage i hated" (Heroes)" I'm sorry, Carnival Night is nothing like the Casino levels. Circus Park would probably be the most accurate (StH). Possibly Even Twinkle Park. (Although thats a strech, since TP is a theme park more than a carnival) Ice Cap - Ice Cap (SA) I would hope they would do more awesomeness than that. The level has already been recreated and is a good example of what themes we might see in a more realistic recreation of the classics. Launch Base - (n/a) Mushroom Hill - (n/a) Frog Forest\Lost Jungle with more spunk. Flying Battery - Final Fortress? not really. Sky Deck? kind of.(heroes, SA1) Sky Deck was pretty Flying Batteryish. Sandolopis - (n/a) Death Chamber/Pyramid Cave (SA2)? Maybe even Sandopolis(SA) Lava Reef - Red Mountian, except not entirely underground (SA) The underground portion of Red Mountain would fit the First Act (You never go above ground in Lava Reef). There would have to be changes for Act 2. Hidden Palace - i would say Lost World, but nah. (n/a, or SA1) It wouldn't take much creativity to make an emerald altar using the same textures and whatnot from Lava Reef Act 2. :\ Sky Sanctuary - (n/a. sickens me, this stage design was awsome) Glyphic Canyon (StH)? Airfleet? Death Egg - end of every sonic game so far besides Shadow and SA1. I dunno... Final Egg is pretty much Death Egg in a nutshell even if it is based on ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron C-T Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 "i mean that with more realisitc environments and storylines, most of the things sonic games are all about wont exist anymore." Which is not what you said. In that case, I agree. But then again the only time environments have looked even remotely Sonic-esque was in SA and some of the Heroes levels. I love SA level design, but apparently more people like the SA2 design (same people who complain the levels are linear.. wtf?). "Mushroom Hill - (n/a)" ::gasp:: Frog Forest, man. No idea how you missed that. I actually liked that level despite the fact that trying to swing on that vine with the horrible camera angle was the worst thing ever. I think one of reasons I liked it so much was because I kept going "omb Mushroom Hill.. yay!" "Sandolopis - (Indoors inside a dark pyramid with freaking ghosts. Cool.)" There was that level in SA2 where Knuckles/Rouge was inside of a pyramid and you had to fight a Mario-esque ghost. And levels for Tails/Robotnik on the way to the period. "Launch Base - (n/a)" Metal Harbor, possibly? It took place on an ocean, and that rocket was launched. Using Hidden Palace isn't fair because it wasn't actually released. I really do hope we get some SA-styled levels and stuff in there, though. And as far as Sonic Next's storyline.. it may be in a more realistic world with actual people and bustling towns and realistic water and whatnot- but it's about a hedgehog who travels back in time to keep Sonic from destroying everything (or.. something). It's still very fantasy-based.. just not necessarily in the same way. That's one of the things I liked about SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheonix Gamma Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Well, I think we all agree that the levels need a tune up. SA1 had some cool levels, and, like I said before, a lot of them felt like actual places, not long strips of floating platform. A few of them were, but they weren't so bad. Oh, and I just remembered I really liked that last Sonic boss against Eggman. It felt really epic with the music and the sweet camera angle. SA2 comes, and a lot of the levels just seem...meh. The first level for Hero story was really cool. I totally dug it. I'll refrain from mentioning the non-Sonic/Shadow levels. Almost all of the running levels were awesome. The only ones I really hated was the crazy gadget one (I would have the electric shield, then get to the part where I had to light speed dash, which ____ed up everything.) and the final levels (this is where the aforementioned "utterly cheap falls to your doom" thing started) Then Sonic Heroes comes, and I liked it, but it felt really glitchy when I rented it (and pirated it to PC, though the game ran slow on it for some reason. Maybe I should try it on my laptop...) and I hated the levels. They were all just thin platforms for me to fall off of (except the first level. I liked that one.) I would constantly say to myself "don't fall off...don't fall off...ok, I'm gonna try homing in on that enemy...SON OF A BITCH!" The Shadow demo felt ultra glitchy. Glad I never bought it. Like I said, I'd like a 3D Sonic sidescroller with a dynamic camera ala Klonoa 2. Flying around the environment made it look really cool. If I got shot up by a large spring, the camera would look down, and I'd think "holy crap, I'm really high up." I was hoping Sonic Rush would have 3D backgrounds for the action levels, but I was disappointed when only Sonic and Blaze were 3D and all the enemies and backgrounds were 2D(excluding the Bosses and the Boss arenas, of course) Like I said, I want a Sonic game that cuts down the "rollercoaster track flying over the abyss" levels to be cut down significantly, but from what it looks like from what I've seen, it's just more of that. Bummer. I do like, though, how Sonic has this "superhero" feel about him now. Like, the Princess is in trouble when Robotnik comes, and Sonic zooms in and and looks over his shoulder. It reminds me of when everyone is cheering his name when he goes to fight Perfect Chaos. Sonic is a hedgehog, and the world's fastest living thing ever. He stands out cause he's THE hedgehog, but now it's like "ok...so now there's 2 other hedgehogs..." Also, how many rivals does he really need? Knux was the first, then they made up. Then there was Mecha Sonic (or was it Metal? oh well.) Then there was Shadow. Then Jet. Now Silver. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Using Hidden Palace isn't fair because it wasn't actually released. I've noticed people lose fact of that because of how much we see it around the Sonic communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron C-T Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Andrew: Yes, that's all fine and dandy to include it normally. But for a list like that of all the levels we've played and which inspired future levels it's not really fair to list it. We talk about Sonic X-treme alot, but he didn't add Jade Gully there... quite different but you get me. xD PG: The "superhero" thing is indeed cool, but only because they've also restored his badassnes. Just look at the Sonic model his brows are narrowed, and in some of the in-game screens he's got one of those "half grin" things going on. As far as the two other hedgehogs.. well.. I dunno. I don't think it really takes away from Sonic because from the looks of Next the story finally revolves totally around him. After all Sonic is the ilbis trigger, not Shadow (watch that ends up being the big twist, and then I cry). He's the one who goes to save the Princess and he's the reason Silver has traveled back in time. Even if Shadow does end up being the ilbis trigger, that would most likely leave Sonic to defeat him. As far as Knuckles.. I hope he has contact with Sonic in the game but only for certain purposes.. Knuckles needs to adopt a "loner aspect" rather than jumping up whenever he's needed. He needs his own agenda, and he should be reluctant to help Sonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentril Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yeah Sonic Heroes really messed that up. He didn't even need to be convinced to go along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yeah, from what I've noticed character interactions haven't been on the ball lately in Sonic games... Like for instance in Sonic Heroes, when they find out Shadow is alive you'd expect them to be at least a little suprised... but instead Sonic just laughs and says "Talk about being full of suprises" or some crap like that... thats a pretty major WTF moment if they had even tried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheonix Gamma Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Shadix, not only that, be he seems to come and save the day in the trailer. Like, Robuttnik (lol) is all "grr! gimmie emeraldz" and everyone's all "AHHH IT'S AN ATTACK! PANIC" and the princess is all "eeek!" Then Sonic comes in, in a blur, and he's all "HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY! ::Moneyshot::" I have the urge to make a Sonic comic now, with a Sonic that's cool and superhero-y, and a story that's not sucky...unlike a certain sonic comic that used to be cool...but fanfics tend to suck...>_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yep, it's pretty lose lose. On the other hand, no one ever groups web comics in the same category as fanfiction anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosol Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 yea. imagine elvis came back and knocked on your front door. You wouldn't say "talk about being full of surprises man, wanna arm wrestle?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 I'd equate it more to seeing Geoge Washington and just saying "Hey, it's you! Whats up?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckythemutant Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Tupac is still alive! So is Shadow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheonix Gamma Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Shadix, methinks that giant Fire Perfect Chaos in the trailer is the Illibis Trigger, and SEGA threw him in the trailer not knowing that, hey, maybe that's a vital plot twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ila Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 So the illbliswhatever thingy has something to do with something right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheonix Gamma Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Basically, Silver is all ""ZOMG SONIK J00 R TEH ILLIBIS TRIGGER! YOU WILL KILL ZILLIONS OF PEEPLE IN THE FUTURE!" and then Sonic's all "____ you, man. I'm gonna go save the day." And then the fire dude comes and is all "I KILL PEEPLZ DIE!" and they kill him the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron C-T Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 "So the illbliswhatever thingy has something to do with something right?" Err.. what? Yes. I think. PG: o.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rael0505 Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 "So the illbliswhatever thingy has something to do with something right?"Err.. what? Yes. I think. You sure about that? I always thought it was just a cool thing for him to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron C-T Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 I was just joking. I thought he was too. ..Unless like.. I just made a joke with myself to myself. In which case. @.@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ila Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Trigger is too common, it should be like "Iblis Thingthatmustbeimportantorsomething" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersheys Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Iblis trigger means "Awakener of the Beast". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rael0505 Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Trigger is too common, it should be like "Iblis Thingthatmustbeimportantorsomething" I completely agree. You should apply for SEGA as a name thinker up-er. You'd get rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron C-T Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 "Iblis trigger means 'Awakener of the Beast.'" If only the Best was the Chaos from Sonic Adventure and not some firey guy. I mean... if you think about it. The city of water, Soleanna (sp?). And you've got some fire beast threatening it. Can they not just put the damn thing out? >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersheys Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 "Iblis trigger means 'Awakener of the Beast.'"If only the Best was the Chaos from Sonic Adventure and not some firey guy. I mean... if you think about it. The city of water, Soleanna (sp?). And you've got some fire beast threatening it. Can they not just put the damn thing out? >.> the fire beast looks like a boss, and there is a rumor that chaos is this beast. However, he turned GOOD in SA1 so he can't be evil again...right? Below is a double post that has been automagically merged into the original. wait, what if that new hedgehog is the Iblis that Sonic "accidently" triggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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