This may be a crazy idea (Sonic and guitars/music)

[Clwe]

...but I've given it a try regardless =P

So...there I was, with a brand new, shiny copy of MMF2 (after the monkeys at FEDEX took 10 days to deliver it - international priority as well), wondering what kind of Sonic fangame to make next. I had aready tried a few things in the past with MMF 1.5 (one-on-one fighting, action RPG, etc) but I got bored of them pretty quick. I then thought about my obsession with Guitar Hero and decided to try and make a game 'kinda' similar to it.

Now...for those in the know (at least some of you), you may question 'whats the point?' when you can't exactly hook up a plastic guitar controller to your PC (though you could glue a strap to your keyboard, hold it to your side and imagine XD). However, I still think it can be pretty involving with just a keyboard. Think of it as DDR for your fingers, or something =P.

Ok, let's get down to the nitty-gritty. I've made what you might call a 'technical demo' (is that the right term?), in that everything works as it should, but there's not much in the way of graphics. The idea is, of course, to hit keys at the right time in order to 'play' notes on the track. If you start missing notes they wont get played, giving the illusion that you screwed up. Likewise, if you hit bum notes, you'll definitely notice as well. Try and hit as many notes as possible for a high score.

There are three tracks to choose from and a variety of difficulty settings in the demo. You can download it from here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.lowe7/rockon.zip

Use the up/down keys and shift to select the track and difficulty setting. The keys you need to use to actually play are Z, X, C, V and B (for the Green, Red, Yellow, Blue and Orange notes respectively).

Notes that are connected by a black line mean you have to press them both together (chords). Notes with a purple line extending after them are sustains - hold the note until the line ends for extra points.

Here's an explanation of the tracks and difficulty settings:

• Ilvern Ruins - A short music piece from YS III that I used for practice more than anything (hence the fact that there's no guitar in it). Start with this one on Easy or Medium to ease yourself in.

• Divine Spirit of Language - An energised, guitar-heavy track from Star Ocean 3 (at least, the MP3 was) that's scarily fast in places. In the interests of making it actually possible to 'play' decently, The tempo's been lowered slightly and a fair amount of notes are dropped (even on Insane). Tips? Watch out for the sudden scales interspersed in the main riffs and the killer solo halfway into the song. Good luck - you're gonna need it =P

• (?) - I'm not saying anything about this one, other than to be prepared for a several minute long tune. Try it and see for yourself...

The difficulty you select depends on the amount of notes you have to play, as well as the number of keys you need to worry about. 'Easy' uses the first three keys, 'Normal' uses four keys while Hard and Insane uses all five.

You can only select 'Easy' for the first track - Ilvern ruins. I've done this because I'm not sure whether Easy is...well, too easy. I'm thinking of dropping easy difficulty altogether, but I'd like to hear your opinions first.

There is the odd limitation to all this (besides the obvious - using a keyboard). I've had to use midi music for this, because MP3's have no concept of tempo...or notes, for that matter. It's just a stream of wave music. Midi music, on the other hand, allows me to see exactly when notes are being played, and then translate that into the game. I could also probably do it with Mod music (at a guess), though I don't have an editor for that.

Part of the reason I'm showing this is because I'm looking for a pixel artist who could do some sprites for me (I did mention this was a Sonic fangame, right? =P), where Sonic and a few other characters play certain instruments and pull off a few moves in the process =P. I know this is isn't a great time as SAGE is starting soon, but I'm not in any rush. I'm actually not sure as to whether I should focus on guitar-based music, or go with a broader selection (any suggestions?) - this would affect the kind of sprites I would need, of course. In any case, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who would be willing to help me.

...annnnnd I'm done (at last) So, give it a try and see what you think. Am I crazy?

actually, don't answer that

[rogueyoshi]

this will be really good. itll be great to see a completely original idea for a fangame. just make sure you take full advantage of MMF2's new features.

also, after playin it, it reminds me of O2 Jam. just make sure you give it spiffy particle effects to go with it.

[Slingerland]

That was really fun, Clwe. I loved how each key could be a different instrument and not just a guitar. Those songs also ruled.

(yay 200 posts)

[ila]

Actually if we buy adaptors we could hook the guitar control up to the PC. I might just have to do that now.

[MidimanNull]

this will be really good. itll be great to see a completely original idea for a fangame. just make sure you take full advantage of MMF2's new features.

also, after playin it, it reminds me of O2 Jam. just make sure you give it spiffy particle effects to go with it.

Isnt O2 Jam that dumb clone of beatmania?

anyways, this is awesome clwe, loving your instrument use on this.

Ilvern Ruins / Insane:

The Divine Spirit Of Language / Insane :

Unknown ( ? ) / Insane:

[ila]

Anyway now that I"ve actually play it I"m kinda psyched for this, although I do think you should incorporate a strum bar of some sort, as right now I'm getting more of a Beatmania ish feel rather than Guitar Hero. Still excellent work. And I'd like to help with the charts if I can.

[Khorney]

wait with the adapter, you mean the PS2 guitar with a PS2>PC adapter? that could work, especially if you combined it with Joy2Key (an incredibly useful program if you ask me)

[ila]

Yeah that thing. The guitar controller is just a PS2 controller except bigger and different. I believe the strumb bar acts as a digital up and down, the 5 buttons on the neck act as the sholder butters and X button, and the wammy bar is the analog stick I think. Start and select are obvious.

[KoE]

Haha! I actually considered making something like this a while back! But I lack the skill and will at the moment.

Well done on this clwe!

[Asuma]

I might bring out my guitar.

[SefirothDB]

Man, I keep making mistakes. Being used to Guitar Hero, I tend to hold the key then wait for the note to arrive before hitting the bar >_>

Now you've got me hyped for this ;_;

[VectorSatyr]

Awesome concept. I really look forward to this game.

[Clwe]

I was actually worried abut what kind of response I would get, seeing as I didn't think the GH controller could be used for this. Now, though...

Ila - ...why didn't I think of getting an adapter? Yes, that would be a great idea, as actually using the plastic guitar for these tracks would add so much to the experience. As you say, the fret buttons/strum on the guitar are 'mapped' to buttons on a standard PS2 pad. So...as long as you have a PS2-PC control adapter, the coding should be easy. I need a decent pad for my PC anyway =P, so I'll definitely have to pick up an adapter and try this. Expect to be rockin' out on your GH controller (if you have one, of course) in a future version

I would definitely appreciate it if you could help with some of the note charts, Ila, as there's no denying they can be tedious. A different one has to be created for each difficulty level...which will mean three or four variations for every song.

I don't know what other songs to include yet, but I will probably go for a mix of guitar-based tunes (The Divine Spirit of Language) and 'free range' ones where you could end up playing any instrument (Ilvern Ruins). The idea being that I would separate the game into two different modes, so those who are stuck with the keyboard wont feel too left out with purely guitar-based tracks. There's probably no hope of MP3 tracks being in the game, though, as I doubt I'll be able to find a band that would be willing to play two different versions of each track (one without the guitar, and one with) for me XD. Still, I'll be careful about what Midis go into the game - if a good song happens to sound a bit pants in midi form, then it wont make the cut.

Midiman - Ok, you've got me beat there =P. I'll confess and say that, despite having made the demo, I'm not very good at the Insane difficulty (which can be likened to 'Expert' mode in Guitar Hero). I can complete the sequences on hard quite competently, but that's as far as my dexerity goes. It's for this reason that the 'Insane' difficulty will be more of a bonus than anything - after all, if I can't play it very well, I wouldn't know exactly how to grade player performances. When it comes to the quantity of notes, I'm basically using Expert note charts on Guitar Hero as a rough guideline (but toned down). I may look for a couple of nimble-fingered testers in the future to help =P

I did think about incorporating a 'strum bar' on the keyboard, but a couple of things stopped me after a little experimentation. First, it's actually quite tedious to have to hold a key note and then hit a strum key for each note (not to mention, it feels unnatrual on a keyboard). Second, most keyboards don't like it when you try to press more than two keys at once - they just ignore the third one (a problem that occurs when you try 'strumming' chords, and I don't want to scrap those). Therefore, the keyboard setup will probably remain as is.

Thanks for your responses - maybe I'm not so mad after all (but nobody would have stopped me anyway!)

[USC]

Nice. Reminds me of the QTE games in the Shenmue Arcade, only slower (but with more scrambling to hit the right keys).

You mentioned you needed some sprite work done? What styles (Advanced, Genesis, RPG, etc), what instruments, and what moves? I might be able to help out a bit...

[DimensionWarped]

5 keys leaves me feeling very awkward. It's too many to play with one hand and too few to play evenly with two. Either 3 or an even number is best I think...

[Clwe]

USC - check your PM's - I just sent you a message.

DW - This may seem a bit strange, but that's actually the idea. Just like in Guitar Hero, once you start using five keys you need to shift your hand up and down the neck (or keyboard). Yes, it is fiddly on the keyboard (and much worse when you're actually using the guitar controller)...but as they say, practice makes perfect. You can have your fingers over four keys easily with a bit of practice, but the fifth key requires you to move your position a little (or stretch a finger out for the occasional 'stray' note on either end). Yes, there's nothing stopping you from using two hands on a keyboard, but the odd five-key layout should discourage some people =P.

You might notice that when you play on 'hard', you're not required to shift your hand half as much as you do on 'insane' - most sections of a song can be played with the first four or the last four keys (just a matter of knowing what comes next). I did this deliberately to ease players in a little, so they don't feel hopelessly out of their depth . There is the normal difficulty if you really don't feel comfortable with the idea (I wont go easy on players when it comes to the hardest songs =P)

[tentril]

That was awesome, although when I heard Sonic and Guitar Hero I totally thought we would be playing Open Your Heart or something.

[ila]

I guess the hardest part about having the strum bar too would then be incorporating hammer ons and what not. That does add quite a few complications.

Anyway I have a few ideas for some songs with prominent guitar playing, I'll let you know when we get a chance to talk.

[Clwe]

UPDATE - It's time to rock! Got a guitar hero controller and a PS2-PC control adapter? Plug 'em in and download the updated demo, which allows you to use the guitar controller to play the tracks (oh yes). Besides strumming up and down, you can also perform hammer-ons and pull-offs wherever you see the notes with white circles inside them. I'm not going to explain how hammer-ons and pull-offs work, as anyone who has guitar hero (and therefore the controller) should know what I'm talking about =P.

The joy2key program will automatically start up (with the correct configuration) when you select the 'Guitar hero controller' option in-game. You must select this option if you have the controller, as the way the controls work also change.

Get the updated demo at:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.lowe7/rockon.zip

[ila]

You crazy nut! Nice work though. Anyway I hope to catch you on AIM sometime so I can feed you some of the song ideas I've had. I'm also getting MMF2 in a few weeks so I can help with some charts.

[Streak Thunderstorm]

One question. WTF is a strum bar?

[ila]

On the Guitar Controller its what takes the place of the strings... triggering it is the equivelent of plucking out a note or strumming or whateverthemusicaltermisthatidon'tcaremuchabout.

[Andrew]

I had to actually use joy2key anyway to make it work with the keyboard. Might want to look into that.