Sonic the Hedgehog - New Screenshots! (Shadow is finally seen!)

[Guest Shadix]

That would imply calling him Robotnik, and the Japs would never let that pass.

[Serephim]

Well, if i can actully see what kind of gameplay Wildfire holds (instead of that 1 level, it wasnt too convincing), maybe i can be really exited about a sonic game again maybe. Wildfire has potental, its on the right path, but at the same time it isnt.

This game's graphics are great, but the more realistic sonic gets the worst it gets. The reason i dissaprove of Shadow/Sonic being in a car is because they OBVIOUSLY dont need them. I could have sworn that sonic runs where he needs to go and shadow can do the same/Teleport. The car is just so freaking out of character. (My sister saw the opening CG sequence to Shadow the Hedgehog and couldnt stop laughing.)

Enough about shadow.

What they need to do (in MY OPIONION) to make sonic games better is actully slow it down, and focus more on the stage design. They know the games dont stand up to the fun of the orginals. Each game [for me] it seems like they get farther and farther away from what makes the old games fun.

Why was SA1 so fun? Fun Level design. (Sky Deck, anyone? How often did you hit top speed on that stage?)

Why was SA2 (Sonic/Shadow) so fun? Not only was playing as shadow cool, but it had great level design as well. (Even though Crazy Gadget was horrificly difficult to get emblems on/buggy, it was a great stage. As well as City Escape, both the jungle stages, and both the Ark stages) Sonics normal running speed on Sonic Adventure 2 was roughly the top speed of Sonic on Sonic Adventure. Amazing Speed Boost, still retained the nice gameplay.

Before i finsh with the 3D games, we can actully run on to the 2D games, specifically the Sonic Advance Series.

Sonic Advance 1 = Great fun, pretty alright speed, great levels.

Sonic Advance 2 = Wth? ub3r speed with more pit deaths and running into enemies you cant see than ever before.

Sonic Advance 3 = When we all got the COUGHCOFGASFAFGAromGASACOUGH of this game, the engine was so bad we thought it was a Beta version or something. It was like a fangame on really really powerful steroids and physics. Plenty of stages, yet lacking. Faster/ fast as SA2.

Seeing my pattern yet?

Now, we can continue on with the 3D games.

Sonic Heroes - Okay, i was really excited with this game when i saw the gameplay videos and the super big loop in the first stage. But once again, what was lacking in this game? People hated the 3 person idea, but I for one actully enjoyed it. When you first play the game you can instantly see that the game engine makes sonic move at ROUGHLY 2.5x his top speed on SA2.

What killed it in the long run? Repetive stages and level design. They even had to halfass the emblem idea because the gameplay diddnt fit doing anything else than fighting hordes of badnicks, flying and running. I believe the "K.Y. Stream" effect came from sonic'n pals going too quick to be able to make them stop without either a) Dead stopping and looking odd or sliding all over the stage.

Shadow the Hedgehog - Oh Lord, where to start. What i believe killed this game was its horrific graphics and engine, not the retarded image they gave shadow. As much as i hate seeing shadow, the "Ultimate Lifeform" use guns,

the game was fun enough. But it could have been so much better if they tried harder. The game had plenty of stages, and since they were all shadow ONLY, it seemed like the game was much longer...But with an exception of a few levels, it jsut got boring. Combined with constant useless profanity, horrific graphics and an even worse engine, it lasted about a few weeks before it got boring.

So.....

Sonic The Hedgehog - Cant say. It OBVIOUSLY runs about 2x quicker than heroes, but no one can really say anything about it. Its on a new system and stronger hardware, but can that make up for the engine problems? If they can mix in GOOD LEVEL DESIGN WITH THAT HAVOK ENGINE, then the game will without a doubt be better than the rest...but we just have to wait i guess.

Sonic Wildfire - I think it would be better if this was just another "Robotnick stole all the flickies and wants to destroy mobious, lets kick his ass" storyline, but sadly it isnt. That aside, the game seems to have the POTENTAL to outdo all the other current-gen sonic games, but they dont seem to be taking the offer up to do it. Giving the game a Rail really doesnt make a difference seeing how your confined to one path in each sonic game anyway, but if they decide to give each stage MASSIVE length and about 15 different rail paths to follow during the stage, the game would kick ass. Just like Super Mario Galaxy, i really think this game has the potental to kick all the previous game's asses, but unlike nintendo (who, through past experiences with games like Wind Waker obviously know how to make games better than the players), this is Sonic Team.

Well, those are my thoughts.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I hated SAdv1. The level design felt too...Mario-ish. And Mario levels weren't meant for Sonic. I felt like I was doing too much jumping, not enough running. SAdv2 was too much running, not enough everything else. No comment on SAdv3.

I liked Heroes, but I kept falling to my death a lot. And I hated the Chaotix stages. And switching formation in the special stages always messed me up cause I'd miss a zillion orbs.

I died too much in SA2. Plus, I REALLY wanted the Green Hill level, but getting all A's on everything (plus winning all the chao crap) just to get it is too much. Oh, and shooting and hunting levels for the fail. I played through those levels for the sole purpose of getting to Sonic's levels.

Liked SA1, but only Sonic's parts. Even then, the action stages seemed like they were missing that little extra something, but I don't know what it is...hmmmm...

I played the Shadow the Hedghog demo, but it didn't have enough good guys or bad guys to get anything other than the neutral mission complete. The gamepaly felt lousy.

[Guest Shadix]

PG: Here is the tricky part... The platform elements of the old games is what people are craving for. Sonic 3 was loaded with the stop and jump and choose paths and whatnot. If it weren't for it's semi-puzzle platforming elemetns I doubt I would have that much love for the series as it stands.

Also, the Green Hill unlockable REALLY isn't worth the effort. If the level had some length it would be understandable but it is incredibly short.

[Pheonix Gamma]

True, Shadix, but in SAdv1, I had the need for speed, but I'd always have to stop and go and jump and crap. That, and I hated how some levels were just really cheap (I'd swear at the millions of spikes, or at how Knux couldn't cling onto some walls.)

[Serephim]

SA2's difficulty was great. Getting all A-Ranks on some stages was the equivilent of fighting a mildly hard DMD boss or something (Dante Must Die mode on Devil may Cry 3 = I M P O S S I B L E.)

But if all the SA2 stages were Sonic/Shadow action stages, i would have had Green Hill Zone.

I mean, GHZ was neat and all, but the stage layout was horrifcally medicore.

[DimensionWarped]

Meh. Am I the only person here who thinks that all Sonic/Shadow hard-mode stages are still laughably easy to A rank?

[Aaron C-T]

There's a great example here, and I've found it in PG and Sereph's posts. Sonic fans are very divided. There are those who want tons of speed, without having to "jump and crap" yet they immediately complain if they're flying uber fast and all they have to do is hit "A" every once in awhile. But of course- they DO NOT want to jump or stop. Then there are those of you who want to jump around alot and do semi-puzzling (like in SA), but Rush seemed to do pretty much both and there were numerous people who didn't like it because it was "too Sonic Advance'd". What did Rush offer? Oldschool "arena" bosses, tons of speed, platforming sections, and even little sections where you had to clear a horde of enemies. But some didn't like it. I even remember someone saying at one point that they "didn't want to have to wait for a platform to move back to where they were" yet that is a VERY classic element in Sonic games. It's a very odd thing with the Sonic fans, that I haven't heard anywhere else.

Things were removed from SA because fans complained it slowed them down (puzzling elements like lighting paths in Lost World, and adventure fields) so they altered the level design for SA2. Most of the Sonic/Shadow levels are still linear and at least SA gave you more to do than just blast through those linear levels. There's no way you can tell me City Escape has multiple paths that are of actual significance. A lot of you like them, yet you turn around and complain that Sonic games don't have multiple paths, after just saying you like the linear level design. I mean PG is complaining about jumping and stopping, when in the original Genesis/Megadrive games that was a huge part of it (numerous rocks, steps, that section where you had to wait for the brick to take you across the lava, etc). I say I want him to be called "Doctor Robotnik," some kid in Japan complains he wants him to be called "Eggman." I think Knuckles should be changed so that he focuses on combat where you can actually do combos since the majority of us didn't like Knuckle's role in SA/SA2 and since he punches in SA. Quite a few of you have disagreed. As far as I knew the level design for Green Hill Zone was the same as in the original game, yet he says it's "mediocre".

Even now when it seems they're at least listening to us somewhat by getting a new engine that isn't just recycled trash, getting a new camera system in place, adding areas that are completely for speed so that people like PG are satisfied, adding back adventure fields for SA lovers like me, and doing tiny little things like allowing Sonic to go from standstill to an all-out-run in an instant to satisfy others- we're still not truely satisfied. Sereph says that the more realistic Sonic gets, the worst it will get. Yet he didn't necessarily "love" Heroes. Then he turns around and says Shadow the Hedgehog was "fun enough." Guns? Military? Motorcylces? Aren't those pretty real? Yet he said he said it was "fun enough." After just taking a look at Sonic Next's screens and videos and saying that if it's realistic it will be worse. Granted I admit the Shadow thing isn't really smart because he can run faster, but we complain that all the Heroes teams are exactly the same (same for SA2). So why not allow Shadow to have weapons and drive vehicles. That's just more to differentiate his gameplay from Sonic's.

I'm going to go get a Krispy Kreme Doughnut, even though Dunkin Doughnuts is right up the street and I like their strawberry frosted more. I don't like strawberries though.

[Pheonix Gamma]

All I know is that SAdv1 felt like Mario, with random shots of caffine. SAdv2 was basically holding right and tapping A.

When I see the trailers for this game, I can't help but think I'll just be holding Up the whole time, then I see an an enemy to kill, I use homing attack, and oh, I missed and fell to my doom. I died in the 3D Sonic games cause of stuff as stupid as that.

I want a massive sandbox adventure zone to roam free in. I think that'd be the bees knees if I could explore a giant world like GTA (I hate the game, but the go anywhere do anything mantra is something I dig) and just explore, then go and do some adventure stages that are a good mix of platforming and speed, and I'd have my ideal game.

[Aaron C-T]

PG: I didn't really die via homing attack that much until Heroes. Granted in SA/SA2 I missed a few times when I was traveling along enemies that were in a path between the platforms but that was more timing than anything else. I never died very much from jumping at an enemy that was grounded until Heroes. And it was never truely annoying until Heroes.

"I want a massive sandbox adventure zone to roam free in"

The exact same thing alot of people didn't like about the adventure fields.

Granted they should be more like what you're looking for this time around, but bear in mind that people will complain that it slows them down. And umm as far as "holding up" it's no different than if SAdv1 was only speed (no jumping, remember) and all you had to do was hold right. This is what I mean. You contradict yourself. What is it that you want? You want to go uber fast and not have to slow down, but you don't want to go uber fast and you want to slow down. Whatever floats your boat, but there's a slight chance (a teensy one) that it will be hard for them to develop a game to those specific requests.

Get real. I mean honestly, there's more to it than just that. Sure there are sections (specifically mach speed) where all you're doing is holding up and occasionally pressing A, but that's what you just said you like. In addition to that there are slower sections that will play more like SA/SA2 (and if you feel you're moving too slow- fear not: collect rings), there are sections where you can get off the path and run along walls, you can grind, you can get an eagle to take you up to a higher platform, and there are multiple paths (reach a goal ring). There are also 3 different styles of play so you don't have to play the same character with a different costume over and over again, there are the town stages which (hopefully) will be extremely awesome.

This is exactly what I mean, and you pretty much drive my point home. I'll again address the fact that you disliked the 2D SAdv because of the "stop and go and jump and crap," yet dislike the 3D games that keep you moving because you simply run, home, and run (assuming you don't fall). With a new engine there's a good chance you won't fall. And I mean really.. if there was never a chance of you falling that would ALSO be a complaint.

Were this not SFGHQ I would simply come to the conclusion that you just don't like Sonic games. Being that this is SFGHQ.. I'm just dreadfully confused.

[DimensionWarped]

I fit into the category of people who want Sonic to be a fast paced on your feet puzzle. Take bosses for instance. Biolizard is awesome. Egg Emperor is ____. Know why? Just because you have to track something down and bludgeon it to death with a ton of attacks doesn't make something a challenge. I'm not going to pretend its super challenging to fight Egg Viper, but in the very least there is a certain order to things that makes it interesting rather than the catch-up with the boss and bludgeon him to death type of thing we saw with Heroes and Shadow. It worked slightly better in Shadow because of the weapon oriented combat, but it absolutely sucked in Heroes.

As for the homing attack, there was this one enemy in SA2 that if you tried to homing attack it, you would automatically be flung away from it. In the hardmode stage of Final Rush its pretty close to the beginning and is pretty good for pissing you off. It almost seems deliberate.

As for why I am into the new game:

I love SA2, and this is the most SA2-like game since... SA2.

Also, I'm still convinced that this game won't disappoint me (though at the same time, I'm sure I could easily be wrong in my conviction) because of the change in developers.

I'm looking forward to silver's gameplay in the new game... not because I think he is an interesting character (hell no.) but because I love HL2's gravity gun.

I'm also looking forward to the mechanic that SEGA is reported to have stolen from me of buying and upgrading abilities that you earn with rings. Yes, I'm kidding as I know its a very predictable move... Still, it'll be a good opportunity to see something I wanted to do in action and see what works and what doesn't.

I still like Shadow no matter how much they rape the character. As long as he isn't riding a bling-mobile through all his levels, give me more and more Shadow and I'll be happy because I'm one of those horrible scum-of-the-earth Shadow fanboys. No, it isn't because of his edgyness or even his black and red color scheme, but simply because he actually inspired some semblance of unity to the story. Before Shadow came around, we would likely have just bounced from story to story scrapping every story that came around before it. Instead we have a sort of scatter-brained story that somehow allowed for Sonic Heroes to take place juxtaposed yet linked to the rest of the whole insanity... but enough of that crap.

And finally, Unlike the last time I got excited about a Sonic game, this time not everything (including all of the game's textures and player models) has been shown to me ahead of time.

[duckythemutant]

Well I always liked the first Sonic Adventure out of all the rest...up until then we got up to Sonic 3D, and we knew very little about the characters except "he was attitude!" or "he's very gullible!" I think Sonic Adventure not only brought Sonic into the 3D realm and brought back the atmospheric feel of the old games, but it brought humanity onto the characters and made them come alive. Thats the first time we really saw that from Sonic Team themselves, everything else was either cartoon or comic books. The only things I didn't like were the dreamcast scratching noises, and the way the models looked like they were constantly in a dancing stance.

I didn't really like SA2 all that much, and I think its because I knew everything about it before it came out. I also hated the fact that it had very little Sonic/Shadow levels and we had to go through the Tails/Eggman stages constantly.

Another thing about the Sonic games is that they didn't fully incorporate the game aspects in 3D form and "cheated" instead. Just like the loops...whenever you touch a specific area on the loops, the character just runs off by himself in a set trail and you don't do anything. In the old games, you had to gain momentum to pass through. If they brought back the loop system the same way they did it in Sonic R, the game would never stop.

Oh snaps, that too. Although it was neat every once in a while to see the camera back away and show your performance (like showing Sonic going through a loop from far away), it took complete control of the game. If the camera was constantly following Sonic (just like the vids for Sonic next gen where he's running through that long trail), the game would bring back the same adrenaline as the old series.

I'm sorry if these points were pointed out already, I didn't read many posts.

[Aaron C-T]

"Just because you have to track something down and bludgeon it to death with a ton of attacks doesn't make something a challenge. I'm not going to pretend its super challenging to fight Egg Viper, but in the very least there is a certain order to things that makes it interesting"

Agreed.

"I love SA2, and this is the most SA2-like game since... SA2."

I think it looks more like a combination of SA + SA2, simply because you can now select characters again rather than being dealt them (I think) and adventure fields (oh I'm sorry, "towns") are back. Either way it's awesome. I think the ring this is an interesting idea.. I just hope it works well.

I personally think they should've made SA and SA2.. I dunno.. more connected or something. As far as stuff from the first showing up in the second more. It was like a completely different world.

Edit: Ducky: I agree whole-heartedly. Sorta.. just.. I don't remember how the Sonic R thing worked.

[duckythemutant]

Well yeah, it was alittle difficult, but the idea of the camera following the character during the loop is a cool experience, they just need to toggle in a way to make it more sufficient.

[Zal]

Sonic Adventure is and always will be my favourite Sonic game. Why? Well basically it brings out true Sonic environments, which SA2 failed to do properly. The thing I'm worried about with these new games is that they seem to be stretching a little further away from what it is meant to truly be.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Anyone play Star Wars Ep3? I have a strong feeling Silver's abilities are gonna be like that, which, IMHO, is a bad thing.

I could care less about bosses. I've never liked a Sonic Boss. Ever.

[DimensionWarped]

You offend me sir, for bosses are one of the most important aspects to any game. Where would Gunstar Heroes be if not for its memorable and epic bosses?

[MidimanNull]

Anyone play Star Wars Ep3? I have a strong feeling Silver's abilities are gonna be like that, which, IMHO, is a bad thing.

I could care less about bosses. I've never liked a Sonic Boss. Ever.

Why dont we just take out ENEMIES too. Then hazards, why not everything that can hurt and makes the game challenging?

[SefirothDB]

I could care less about bosses. I've never liked a Sonic Boss. Ever.

Say what? Bosses are one of the reasons I loved the Genesis era of Sonic. Seeing Eggy with a new attachment (generally in function of the stage you were playing) and finding out his routine & weak points was challenging ;_;

And the Death Egg mecha in S3K was all kinds of awesome, kickass music included.

[DimensionWarped]

And the Death Egg mecha in S3K was all kinds of awesome, kickass music included.

Five stars. DEpart 3 has the best music of any part of S3K IMO.

[Aaron C-T]

"Sonic Adventure is and always will be my favourite Sonic game. Why? Well basically it brings out true Sonic environments, which SA2 failed to do properly. The thing I'm worried about with these new games is that they seem to be stretching a little further away from what it is meant to truly be."

Agreed. Although, imo, Sonic Next doesn't really move THAT far away from what we've seen. Sonic Adventure had Sonic-esque environments, but it also had Station Square and some city levels in addition to the more generic Sonic levels. At least Next has levels like the forest one, which although being more realistic, is still a very Sonic-stlyed environment. I also quite like Kingdom Valley (I believe that's the level with all the castles and whatnot). At least there are things like the crab badniks bought back into play. And hopefully the town stages will have the oldschool Sonic characters (not sure how far back they're going to reach to populate them.. maybe the Chaotix will be around, who knows?) around, and hopefully places like the Angel Island will still be completely intact. Whereas in SA2 Angel Island wasn't even accesible (outside of cutscenes). Yay for town stages.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Errr....wtf...

SONIC bosses, gentlemen. I hate SONIC BOSSES.

I love good bosses. Like ones in Mischief Makers or Shadow of the Collossus. And Zelda. And a LOT of other games.

I just hated every SONIC boss.

kthxbi

EDIT: 'cept for Sonic Rush.

[Aaron C-T]

... All of them? Dude why the hell do you even play Sonic games? You don't want to have to jump or ever stop, yet you don't want to just hold up (or right in 2D) and have to hit "A" every once in a while, you've never liked any of the Sonic bosses for the last 15 years, you've never liked any of the old Genesis games (going by you're own "I don't want to have to ever jump/stop" statement) and you don't like any of the current-gen 2D Sonic games (because you don't like having to hit "A" every once in awhile), going by your own statements you also don't like Sonic Rush. I don't understand. When I don't like something, I simply won't play it. You don't like something so you choose to continue playing it and talking about how you dislike it. The hell?

[Pheonix Gamma]

Cause Sonic's cool

Plus, I know SEGA is trying hard to make a great game that everyone will love. With the exception of Shadow the Hedgehog, I do feel that SEGA puts enough effort into their games for me to at least give them a shot.

I liked the Genesis games. Those had a good mix of running and jumping.

I liked SA1, but it missed that little something that made it perfect (for the record: I still pick up SA1 and run through Sonic's levels. Rarely I'll got back to SA2, but only cause I want all As for Sonic)

I kinda liked Heroes, but I felt that I died too often due to my homing attack not Homing.

Plus I really wish that not every 3D Sonic level was a long, thin platform that I can fall off of easily, cause it kinda feels less like a real place. City Escape felt like an actual city, not a bunch of platforms over an endless abyss. Same with a couple of other levels. But Sonic Heroes didn't have much of that (that I recall. I never beat it.)

ACTUALLY, I take back my not liking Sonic Bosses statement. I REALLY liked Sonic Rush's bosses. Those were really neat. Sorry 'bout that.

[Aaron C-T]

"Plus I really wish that not every 3D Sonic level was a long, thin platform that I can fall off of easily, cause it kinda feels less like a real place."

Tis true. And yea I think the same thing about the original SA, but at the same time it missed that "thing that made it perfect" because it was the first 3D Sonic game ever. It was bound to have flaws. What I don't get is how things seemed to get worse after that. >.>