Sonic Unleashed

[DimensionWarped]

The article clearly never understood classic Sonic, but whatever. It isn't like it doesn't look fun... it just doesn't look like what I personally want from them. I'll still play it of course, but eh... I'm not that optimistic about this one.

[Blue Frenzy]

5. Homing attacks are preserved from the previous 3-D versions of Sonic, but mostly what you'll be doing is running really fast, making split-second decisions (each level has multiple pathways), and then running really fast some more. In other words: This is classic Sonic.

That sentence threw every of my hopes to the garbage.

[Cyber Rat]

If I understand well, when StH2006 was supposed to be released it looked awesome, and then it pretty much made it into the "worst games ever list". So, given previous experience, I think everyone should refrain from any judgment until we've actually played the damn game. Sure, it LOOKS great, but who knows? It might be buggy as Hell, or have crappy gameplay. Sure, the werewolf thing DOES sound like very bad fanfiction, but it might be fun.

[duckythemutant]

That sentence threw every of my hopes to the garbage.

I dunno, I thought it was kinda cool. Going super super fast and doing crazy stunts was always fun to do, and toning down how much you use the homing attack might be a good formula. Plus that along with hubworlds is bliss. I was one of the anti-Unleashed leaders, but I gotta say the details on the game aren't turning out as bad as I thought they would as they come along

[Aaron C-T]

CyberRat: Everyone knows the difference with Sonic Next is that the intentionally lied to us over and over again, and led us on with things they weren't planning on using. If you can act as if this game'll be cool because they benched a few characters that have been with Sonic for the better part of his lifetime, I can act like this game might be a failure because the previewer claims classic Sonic is all about running fast, and simply running into enemies. We're not supposed to be extremely negative and take this topic to hell, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with you in this topic.

[Cyber Rat]

CyberRat: Everyone knows the difference with Sonic Next is that the intentionally lied to us over and over again, and led us on with things they weren't planning on using. If you can act as if this game'll be cool because they benched a few characters that have been with Sonic for the better part of his lifetime, I can act like this game might be a failure because the previewer claims classic Sonic is all about running fast, and simply running into enemies. We're not supposed to be extremely negative and take this topic to hell, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with you in this topic.

I never said anybody should agree with me.

One of the things that is getting on my nerves is that Sonic is getting waaaay too overcrowded. Every game introduces a new character with a specific mechanic that is later scrapped into the lore of the Sonic games, never to return again. That's the first reason that I like the idea of only Sonic being playable. The second reason is that with Sonic being the only character, they can concentrate on redeveloping Sonic's gameplay and making it much better than if they were to develop an engine that works for 3 or 4 characters with different abilities. If they make Sonic play right, then they can just copy/paste him in the future titles (with a few adjustments if needed) and then use future games to introduce working mechanics for other characters like Tails and Knuckles.

In other words, I would rather have a bug-free one-character game than 12 different characters like in Heroes, and then stop playing the game because the bugs are so damn annoying.

Also:

Everyone knows the difference with Sonic Next is that the intentionally lied to us over and over again, and led us on with things they weren't planning on using.

Yes, everyone knew that difference AFTER Sonic Next was released. But everyone was in awe BEFORE the game was released. For all we know they could be doing the same thing now, since we're currently in the "BEFORE the game is released" period. But we can't prove either. That's why I say that it's pointless to say how this game sucks, or how this game is awesome.

If you can act as if this game'll be cool because they benched a few characters that have been with Sonic for the better part of his lifetime, I can act like this game might be a failure because the previewer claims classic Sonic is all about running fast, and simply running into enemies.

The fact that I agree with the reviewer that it's a good thing some characters got benched (but for all I know, probably for different reasons) doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. What more, I have been supporting the fact that Sonic needs a good solo game for quite some time, so that makes the previewer's impact even less. If you're gonna judge the game based on what somebody else says, not about the game, but about prior games in the series, then I guess that's your loss (Although I get what you were trying to say, but my statement and the previewer's have nothing to do with each other.).

[DimensionWarped]

I have one interesting thing to point out about that...

Sonic being the only playable character does absolutely nothing to stop character creep. Want proof? Amount of new characters introduced in Sonic for the 360/PS3 = EDIT: 3 (left out the princess) (Silver and That stupid fucking hedgehog on crack). Amount of new characters introduced in Sonic and the Secret Rings = 2 (Scharazade or whatever her name was and the Erazor Djinn). In fact, in that continuity, those two characters are more major than Silver is in Next. Moving on backwards... Shadow the Hedgehog introduced two new characters to the story... Black Doom and the GUN Commander (who may or may not be phased out).

Moving back further...

Sonic Heroes introduced zero new characters in spite of having a total of 12 playable... or 4 depending how you look at it.

Sonic Adventure 2 introduced... you guessed it, 2. Well, 3. It had the President. 5 if you count dead people.

Sonic Adventure introduced 3... but had less playable than SA2. Big, Gamma, and Chaos. 5 if you count dead people like Tikal and Pachamachamachamachamachamachukamachik or whatever the hell his name is.

Sonic 3/S+K introduced one new character, that being our favorite Knuggles of course. 3 playable there.

Sonic 2 introduced one new character. Tails. Adorable, probably a woman at the time if I'm not mistaken on the meaning of all that concept art.

Sonic CD introduced a whopping 2 characters in spite of having only one playable... Amy and Metal Sonic.

And finally, Sonic 1 started it all with just two. Sonic and the crazy Doctor Robotnik.

So let's not confuse things here... there is no link between the character creep in the series and the number of playable characters in a given game.

[Kain]

I personally have no problem with them introducing however many story characters (one-off or recurring) they want so long as they use them to further the development of the fairly concise cast of core characters and don't just make it "the story of X v Y featuring Sonic." Sure, with one key core character being a villain, there are some limitations with what you can do, but that's never stopped Mario from having his Bowser/Peach/Luigi/Toad/Yoshi and introducing/phasing out new characters, too (not a great comparison, so don't look into it too much). But when you've accumulated 20 different primary characters who are all poorly-detailed caricatures, then you've skewed off course somewhere along the line.

[Cyber Rat]

I have one interesting thing to point out about that...

Sonic being the only playable character does absolutely nothing to stop character creep. Want proof? Amount of new characters introduced in Sonic for the 360/PS3 = EDIT: 3 (left out the princess) (Silver and That stupid fucking hedgehog on crack). Amount of new characters introduced in Sonic and the Secret Rings = 2 (Scharazade or whatever her name was and the Erazor Djinn). In fact, in that continuity, those two characters are more major than Silver is in Next. Moving on backwards... Shadow the Hedgehog introduced two new characters to the story... Black Doom and the GUN Commander (who may or may not be phased out).

Moving back further...

Sonic Heroes introduced zero new characters in spite of having a total of 12 playable... or 4 depending how you look at it.

Sonic Adventure 2 introduced... you guessed it, 2. Well, 3. It had the President. 5 if you count dead people.

Sonic Adventure introduced 3... but had less playable than SA2. Big, Gamma, and Chaos. 5 if you count dead people like Tikal and Pachamachamachamachamachamachukamachik or whatever the hell his name is.

Sonic 3/S+K introduced one new character, that being our favorite Knuggles of course. 3 playable there.

Sonic 2 introduced one new character. Tails. Adorable, probably a woman at the time if I'm not mistaken on the meaning of all that concept art.

Sonic CD introduced a whopping 2 characters in spite of having only one playable... Amy and Metal Sonic.

And finally, Sonic 1 started it all with just two. Sonic and the crazy Doctor Robotnik.

So let's not confuse things here... there is no link between the character creep in the series and the number of playable characters in a given game.

You forgot characters from handhelds like Nack the Weasel, Blaze the Cat, Cream, and those birds from the Sonic Riders game. Most of these characters are unnecessary IMHO, but I won't go into greater detail, since we would be going into offtopic.

The thing is, 5 or 500 characters, it doesn't make a difference, this game needs to concentrate on the main mechanic, and that is Sonic's gameplay. If, like they say, they have been developing this for 3 years now, I'm sure that they will be using it for future titles, but in order for titles after Unleashed to exist, they need to do this right, especially after Sonic Next. That's why a one-character bug-free game is a far better option than a half-done multi-character game. If they do this right, we will be getting all the characters we want later. This shouldn't be about "I like Tails/Knuckles/Shadow! Please include them!", it should be about getting the franchise out of the gutter, since it's definitely not-doing-good-at-all.

And just for the record (in case I wasn't clear in my earlier post): I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me, this is just my opinion, and I stand to it.

[DimensionWarped]

I deliberately didn't go into spinoffs and the like. It's a wasted effort. In any event, you can certainly concentrate on the core mechanics and still have a multitude of characters. It's all in the way you decide to have everyone move in the end.

[Aaron C-T]

CyberRat: I was simply pointing out that it's wrong to tell people who are being negative like in the two posts before yours to "refrain from any judgment." We're allowed negative comments in this thread such as Blue Frenzy's. If that's not what you were doing, then so be it.

[Jsonic]

I will download and play the demo when its on live, if it ever gets there. From that I'll decide if I like it enough to buy it, With that, the case is closed, for me anyways. One thing I have to say though, because I like full 3D platforming freedom of movement, no matter how buggy as long as it is playable enough to get by. Even if the level designs are linear, I'll take that over being confined to a *Beep* rail! Whats the point of being 3D only to use 2D gameplay, besides looking way better than sprites ever could and having 3D FX and gimmicks. Don't get me wrong the video looks like fun and all. But I just don't feel like sonic should be confined to 2D gameplay styles, just because 3D hasn't been working too good lately. Sonic Rush was alright but I still wish Sega would make another re-make of Sonic Adventure for the DS. I believe that if they tried hard enough they could find a way even if it means reducing the detail level and the number of playable characters. As I said before, I'll decide on it when I get my hands on a demo.

Wow, I can really type a lot when I get my mind on something I really want to say. XD

[Cyber Rat]

In any event, you can certainly concentrate on the core mechanics and still have a multitude of characters. It's all in the way you decide to have everyone move in the end.

I know what you mean, (I'm bringing the following up only as an example) the Genesis games basically had the same movement for everyone, except that the characters were given different values and one unique ability (Sonic's use of shields, Tails's ability to fly, Knuckles's wall climb/glide). Commercial games these days need to go beyond that if they want to be successful. Every critic today would bury Sega's ass if they were to make the other characters "move exactly the same and have one unique move" and put them into the same levels. They would have to do what they did with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, and that would take time for each character, and the standard Sonic Team bugs would be even more frequent, not to mention that the would have to decrease the time they spend working on Sonic's levels.

[Blue Frenzy]

I know what you mean, (I'm bringing the following up only as an example) the Genesis games basically had the same movement for everyone, except that the characters were given different values and one unique ability (Sonic's use of shields, Tails's ability to fly, Knuckles's wall climb/glide). Commercial games these days need to go beyond that if they want to be successful. Every critic today would bury Sega's ass if they were to make the other characters "move exactly the same and have one unique move" and put them into the same levels. They would have to do what they did with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, and that would take time for each character, and the standard Sonic Team bugs would be even more frequent, not to mention that the would have to decrease the time they spend working on Sonic's levels.

I do not agree. Look for example the latest game cube Resident evil series. REmake and RE zero has 2 characters, and they play mostly the same, but they have unique small things that makes them interesting. Just like s3k. gameplay was the same, but each character has the unique small things that made the gameplay interesting. For example, knuckles not only was able to climb, he also was able to break walls without spindash and the jump was more limited than the sonic one. That gave a lot of gameplay for knuckles with secret paths filled with unique areas ready to test the knuckles skills.

The level itself had unique secrets. Think on the angel Island rocks when you played sonic 3k. Didn't you spend some time there trying to enter inside before leave it as impossible?

Having it on separated levels is not the same thing, since the level is actually exploited at maximun, so, there is no more secrets to find than what you can get at first. Instead, you wont be able to run over all the level with just one character, making it more interesting.

[Cyber Rat]

I do not agree. Look for example the latest game cube Resident evil series. REmake and RE zero has 2 characters, and they play mostly the same, but they have unique small things that makes them interesting. Just like s3k. gameplay was the same, but each character has the unique small things that made the gameplay interesting. For example, knuckles not only was able to climb, he also was able to break walls without spindash and the jump was more limited than the sonic one. That gave a lot of gameplay for knuckles with secret paths filled with unique areas ready to test the knuckles skills.

The level itself had unique secrets. Think on the angel Island rocks when you played sonic 3k. Didn't you spend some time there trying to enter inside before leave it as impossible?

Having it on separated levels is not the same thing, since the level is actually exploited at maximun, so, there is no more secrets to find than what you can get at first. Instead, you wont be able to run over all the level with just one character, making it more interesting.

I haven't played those RE games, but I've played RE2, and it had 2 characters with different story paths. Comparing Sonic to RE in terms of multiple characters is kinda pointless. In Sonic you play 'unrealistic' characters, and thus nobody would complain if you were to add a character that can dig with his feet, shoot fireballs out of his butt and whatnot, since you're playing a blue hedgehog that can run faster than certain cars, you can play a two-tailed fox that can fly, and a red... thing that looks like a boxer... In RE you play humans, and if they want to keep a sense of 'realism' they can't go very far in giving them different abilities.

As far as level design goes, it was easier to implement those little secrets in the Genesis era because the characters had little abilities. If you look at all the stuff you can do in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, you can see that you have completely different experiences playing different characters, since they are more you unique gameplay-wise.

[Blue Frenzy]

Well, no, do not think that you are playing bluc hedgehogs or humans, you are playing a bunch of sprites/polygons. And in both games you have 2 characters playing the same, with slight differences, and both characters plays most part of the game on the same place, with just a few custom sections and a few object replacement. And the new RE are kinda new, and I don't think people complained about how evil was to play with 2 characters that moves at the same speed and shot at the same speed.

About level design, you are right, but i don't think that is a good point. If I buy a sonic game is to be running and plataforming over large levels, not to play a bad shooter game or a treasure hunt. Different game modes are for me just a no no. If you don't like a kind of gameplay of 2 options, then you don't like half of the game. It is not the same if they are small optional games, because it doesnt intefere with the game, but interfering it jsut makes the game wrong. The thing i most hate of SA is that i had to obbligatory play as big, amy, tails and gamma to watch the real ending. If their gameplay were the same, but with slight differences, newer paths and else, it'd be one of the most enjoyable things of the game. You can replay the game having lots of new surprises.

In other words, I find as fun to play a multi-experience game as to play a minigames' game. Can be fun during some time, but that's all. It doesn't give the experience of getting inside the core of the game.

[Slingerland]

LOOK AT THESE WIIIIIII SCREEEEEEEENS:

http://gonintendo.com/?p=47804

[Aaron C-T]

Really? Let's be serious, now. The Wii isn't that underpowered. It should definitely look better than that.

[Cyber Rat]

They Wii screenshots look like from they're from the Dreamcast.

[Aerosol]

I dont give a shit. Looks fine to me.

[Ligar]

They're just screens. In gameplay its probably slick like butter.

[Rael0505]

I don't have a problem either with the graphics, they're fine.

[Herotokami]

Well, the guy who sent in those screens said that they look better than that.... he said something about a crappy camera, scanner or something.

[ila]

Really? Let's be serious, now. The Wii isn't that underpowered. It should definitely look better than that.

But the Wii is pretty underpowered. Especially when not being used by Nintendo's devs. I think the screens look fine. Pretty last gen compared to the 360 screens, but not bad. Its a toss up to see which version I'll actually get though.

[Ligar]

Since its coming out for the holidays, I'll probably snatch it up with a PS3... wait... sh** >.> "Holidays"...