Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

[Aki-at]

How, exactly? Because, if I remember correctly, it shares the same storyline as SA2 and Shadow, and if those are spin offs, than so is Heroes.

Since when does storyline define if somethings a spin-off or not? Shadow is a supporting character from the Sonic Series and he is the star of his own game, hence his game is a spin-off of the Sonic Series. Same applies to Knuckles Chaotix and Tails Adventure.

Sonic Riders is a racing game, Sonic games are known to be platformers, hence why thats a spin-off of the main series itself. Sonic Shuffle and Sonic Fighters would be considered spin-offs too.

Sonic Heroes was a game starring Sonic and had the platforming elements of the Sonic games, so its not a spin-off. Story does not make something a spin-off or not.

[Streak Thunderstorm]

I think you defined that wrong... Essentially, Storline, or the change thereof, IS WHAT DEFINES SPIN-OFF... I know what you meant by what you said... but yar. A spin-off is usually taken from the main story and put into depth to describe something else of the series without actually doing it in the series itself.

[Aki-at]

Well I was speaking about video games in general (as for more story oriented series, yes what I said would be bullshizzle) since story isn't what defines a spin-off in all video game series, although it is a bit of a sketchy subject.

Since lets say, Devil May Cry 4 has a new lead role and Daten is presented as a villain to the new lead, does that make it a spin-off? no. For a video game to be a spin-off, its usually down to the drastic change in gameplay from the original gameplay, although that doesn't always apply.

[PunkXBlaze]

If you want to look at it that way, technically everything since Sonic moved into 3d is a spin off, still including Heroes. Heroes is no closer to the original games, IMO, then the adventure series. Hell, it's even farther away with all that team crap.

3d, linear gameplay = Major change from multi-pathed, 2D gameplay. Regardless of whether it's still platforming or not.

But, really, this is getting way off the topic of STH.

[DimensionWarped]

Yo guys, if Shadow had been developed by the DMC team, it would have been the best Sonic game evar.

[Aki-at]

If you want to look at it that way, technically everything since Sonic moved into 3d is a spin off, still including Heroes. Heroes is no closer to the original games, IMO, then the adventure series. Hell, it's even farther away with all that team crap.

3d, linear gameplay = Major change from multi-pathed, 2D gameplay. Regardless of whether it's still platforming or not.

But, really, this is getting way off the topic of STH.

So then you consider Shadow the Hedgehog part of the main series? even Tails Adventure? or maybe Knuckles Chaotix? hell lets put in that Tails pre-school game in there as well! or does Sonic spin-offs have to be defined by story? Because then I'm sure we can put Sonic Battle in there as well.

Oh and level design does not make something a spin-off or not, else I'm calling Sonic R closer to Sonic the Hedgehog then Sonic Adventure because it has more paths for me to chose from. Spin-offs are also defined by what the series is known for, the series is not know for battling aliens, guns, or being child abusers to eight year old foxes, the series is know to star a speedy blue hedgehog who dashes through platform style zones (with friend(s) or not) to stop a some plan to take over/destroy the world.

Now back to the convo, Sonic Next American site updated that goes on about 4 player battle mode and two player co-op mode.

EDIT 1: Hedgehog May Cry would be awesome, I'd like to play that =E

[Aaron C-T]

"...the way you're phrasing this entire post seemingly makes it look as though I'm completely and utterly opposed to the older games, and you're somewhat backing them up. Thus gaining you more 'cool points' with the community."

Not what I was doing at all. Your comments on Sonic Rush clearly neglect the fact that Rush had multiple paths, something the old games had. That and:

"Unfair, especially since I pointed out that the recent games are duff and would pick Adventure over Shadow every day of the week. Even if both are just as flawed as each other."

Then like I said.. why is getting back to something similar to Adventure-style bad? I'm not trying to earn "cool points," thank you very much. Afterall, you're the one saying that we're "expecting that we'll magically get Adventure-levels of quality in this new game." I'm simply saying that any sort of move back towards that is a positive move. How this is earning "cool points" I've no idea. My bad for stealing you're points, dawg, ya know what I'm sayin? Had no idea. I just fail to see how improving is bad, and why we can't like Sonic Next for what it's improved (the things I've mentioned). Maybe I should've just left my post as it was rather than sum it up, but whatever.

And I still fail to see how something like actual multiple paths can possibly be considered "bells" in a Sonic game.

[tentril]

Scatta doesn't get cool points anymore. Hes maxxed out.

[Guest Shadix]

ON ANOTHER SUBJECT SUBJECT TO COMPLAINT, according to the wikipedia article which claims the info came from the Nextgen japanese translation of Blaze's profile...

Silver and Blaze are siblings LIEK OMG

[tentril]

WTF? How is that even possible?

[Blyde]

Maybe they're just siblings as in "very close". Could just be a rather literal interpretation of the words.

But if they're actually blood-related, that's weird. Then again, if you invert Silver's TWO spines (as in super form), he DOES look a bit like Blaze.

[Steven M]

The fun never stops, does it?

Not what I was doing at all. Your comments on Sonic Rush clearly neglect the fact that Rush had multiple paths, something the old games had.

Oh, I dunno. The Advance series had multiple paths as well. And quite a lot of them. And here's another thought. Multiple paths are the same thing as selectable characters, and rails, and 'mid-air tricks', and so on. Fancy features, gimmicks at worse. Unfortunately, to get the most out of them, you have to... oh, I dunno, put some effort in making them decent. NOW DON'T FIRE OFF THOSE LETTER KEYS JUST YET, since I'm not directly attacking any game just yet and I'm not going to charge into a complete and definitive list of 'EVERYthing that ever sucked about Teh New Gamez'.

...and is that the only complaint you have against my comments on Sonic Rush? I forgot the paths?

Then like I said.. why is getting back to something similar to Adventure-style bad?

I wasn't saying that, I'm saying people are expecting a bit too much out of this game. WHY, BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE GOOD? Actually, yes. That's exactly it. There's a very good chance that this will be nothing more than another game with glitches and boredom, with a fancy lick of paint and a new engine stacked somewhere on top of it.

"But Steven, the game isn't even out yet, why don't we give it a chance?"

Because the time between now and then isn't exactly gargantuan compared to the time they've already had to fix things.

You're the one saying that we're "expecting that we'll magically get Adventure-levels of quality in this new game."

That's great. Completely ignore the FIRST time I already addressed this point. WHEN DID YOU DO THAT? A few posts ago on the previous page, perhaps.

I'm simply saying that any sort of move back towards that is a positive move.

The sad thing is, this is quite possibly a Catch 22. If I agree and say that the original games were better... as, you know, I already did, good lord... you're going to compare Adventure to Next again which is really rather dangerous. I think you and I both know we're not going to come close to another game of Adventure quality for quite a while.

And of course it's a bit difficult to disagree since after SA1 came SA2 and so forth. Hey, stuff went downhill despite the fact that numerous... 'improvements' were put into the games. What a shame.

My bad for stealing you're points, dawg, ya know what I'm sayin?

You complete and utter wigger. You've not only completely failed to see the sarcasm in the metaphor, you've also taken said device and shat on it.

Had no idea. I just fail to see how improving is bad

Don't remember implying this. Care to explain? Maybe something along the lines of 'if it ain't broke' or 'improvements should enhance the game and not break them'?

And I still fail to see how something like actual multiple paths can possibly be considered "bells" in a Sonic game.

Hey, guess what? The Advance series had multiple paths too. And rails. And mid-air boosts. Rush just takes all those and gives it a lick of paint and some fancy whistles on top to 'take advantage of the power of the NDS'.

[Serephim]

You know, i find it funny that ive RARELY had Homing Attack problems from Sonic Heroes. (Except when your team mate attacks the enemy first and you attack, but instead go falling to your death...which has only happened around 3 times to me.)

Playing through Sonic Heroes again, i SERIOUSLY cant find any real problems with the game aside from the fact that playing as anyone other than Team Sonic or Team Dark was completely boring. (Team Dark would be awsome if they replaced Omega with someone better.). I myself found the game's Stages alot more fun than both SA1 and SA2, the game was around 2 or 3x faster than the other games, the stages were around 5 or 6x longer than the other stages, and aside from Tails and everyone outside team Sonic and Dark, the talking was pretty cool. Heroes was fun to me mostly because they went back to the orginal platform layout. Long paths, slopes (OMG SLOPES!), loops, and really long jumps.

Although Shadow the Hedgehog was pretty much horrible after you played every stage over 4 times, Sonic Heroes was the LAST game Sonic Team REALLY worked on to the fullest.

This game will most likely be the same way. Fun when you play it, Fun when you beat it, then people start finding problems.

[Eraysor]

It's only about 3 weeks away now anyway. Just wait and see how average it'll be.

[VectorSatyr]

This game will most likely be the same way. Fun when you play it, Fun when you beat it, then people start finding problems.

That's something I find very stupid, myself. People say the game is fun, then do a double take and say it sucks after others point out all the nasty personal dissapointments it gave them. How the line between opinion and fact gets blurred like that, I have no idea. Fanism, maybe?

[Steven M]

That's something I find very stupid, myself. People say the game is fun, then do a double take and say it sucks after others point out all the nasty personal dissapointments it gave them.

Bandwagon.

[VectorSatyr]

Right... now I need to be asking why I was so oblivious to such a simple answer...

[Aaron C-T]

"The Advance series had multiple paths too. And rails. And mid-air boosts. Rush just takes all those and gives it a lick of paint and some fancy whistles on top to 'take advantage of the power of the NDS'."

Lay a new coat of paint down on a weathered bench, and suddenly the bench is a lot more pleasing on the eyes than it was beforehand. Some people might actually even bother to sit on it now that there's less of a chance for peeling paint to get stuck to their nice, ironed business suit.

The level design in Sonic Rush was a bit better than it was in SAdv2. I never felt like I was running in one direction forever, only to get to a boss and run in one direction forever. There were actually cutbacks and the like. And sure, there were mutliple paths in the Advance games- they just weren't implemented as well. There's actual differentiation in Sonic Rush. Take on path in SAdv2 and it's running, running, and more running (most likely to the left). Take one in Rush and as opposed to running, you'll enter an area where the doors will be locked off and you'll have to destroy a squad of enemies before continuing on. The game just feels tons more solid than the Advance ones. Closest fun to playing 2D Sonic I've had since Genesis. It's certainly no S3&K, but it certainly pushes higher than SAdv2 did (which was basically SAdv with crappy bosses). I've failed to mention SAdv3 because I didn't even bother touching it.

"I wasn't saying that, I'm saying people are expecting a bit too much out of this game."

Maybe. Or maybe I'm satisfied with what they seem to have done so far. Maybe I'm not expecting much more than what they've showed us: which is quite a bit. They've given me back my adventure fields with actual purpose (customization, story progression, level connections). They've finally "fixed" homing attack, despite me never thinking there was a problem ('cept for the Heroes "oh no Tails hit him before I did" thing). They're allowing me to select who I want to play as for the first true time since the original SA. Shadow is no longer a complete and utter clone of Sonic who varys very little gameplay-wise. Maybe I'm not expecting too much. Could it not be possible, that I'm simply happy with what I'm going to get? The aforementioned things are the kind of stuff I, personally, have been asking for- for quite a bit now. And I'm getting them. That's all. I'm not expecting anymore than what I've actually seen/read. If that's what I get I'm good. Anything extra is cool beans.

[shadowgoten]

I enjoyed rush!

[VectorSatyr]

I have yet to share that enjoyment... ;_;

[Aaron C-T]

Aero: Well.. just out of curiosity, what don't you like about it? And what about it do you like?