Sonic: Lost World

[ila]

Time to break out the popcorn!

[OverbounD]

fumetsusozo DW might be the lightest person on this forum. You on the other hand... yeesh.

[Geckoroverse]

Alright folks, it's understandable that some people want Sonic to return to a more camera-controllable ease-of-navigation Sonic gameplay, but there's no need to start yet another argument on the topic (saying "yet another" because longtime Retro stalker). Honestly, there ARE aspects of the Adventure games gameplay I would like to see return (I do think that Sonic is considered slow by some nowadays because of it's contrast to Modern gameplay, and it did seem apparant to me playing it a few days ago) alongside Generation's gameplay, but it's too early to tell what kind of gameplay this new game is actually offering.

I suppose I'm just attempting to play mediator and failing, but I suppose I'd like to hear more about theories toward what this game has to offer than to argue about gameplay speed/preferences and such.

EDIT - Somewhat ninja'd by Overbound, but oh well.

[DimensionWarped]

Or perhaps some people just have different tastes in gameplay. there's a thought?. And I for 1 play games to just enjoy myself. And running insanely fast is 1 thing that brings me such joy. And what is insulting me suppose to do again? To prove your opinion is better then mine? Ha! that's almost cute. How old are you again? and how about you go and enjoy what you want and I'll go do the same? It's a video game. learn to lighten up a little.

Hey hey hey, we weren't talking about taste in gameplay. We were talking about speed and speed alone and I maintain the Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are about as fast as any game in the series if you don't suck at gaining speed. And I'm just a very anti-boost button person and people who think the games should stay like that for the rest of time annoy me.

And hey guy, you don't need to ask how old I am. It's displayed openly in my profile and I'm no liar. Likewise I don't need to ask how old you are since, in spite of you not openly displaying it, I can just look at your birth date in the admin panel.

[Geckoroverse]

Hey hey hey, we weren't talking about taste in gameplay. We were talking about speed and speed alone and I maintain the Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are about as fast as any game in the series if you don't suck at gaining speed. And I'm just a very anti-boost button person and people who think the games should stay like that for the rest of time annoy me.

Sorry, it's just that sometimes even little topics like this seem to start shit-fests about gameplay and such; people can get pretty brutal about it.

I suppose I can understand the basis of Adventure's speed, given how it relates to the principles of Classic Sonic designs (get good to go fast), but I think it would have worked out far better if controlling Sonic were a little...smoother. On that note, I always imagined Sonic having the option to slowly grind to a halt or perhaps grind and arc around and speed back up again.

Or, ya' know, just fix the clunkiness of it.

[TailsSena]

Or perhaps some people just have different tastes in gameplay. there's a thought?. And I for 1 play games to just enjoy myself. And running insanely fast is 1 thing that brings me such joy. And what is insulting me suppose to do again? To prove your opinion is better then mine? Ha! that's almost cute. How old are you again? and how about you go and enjoy what you want and I'll go do the same? It's a video game. learn to lighten up a little.

For this to come from me may be uncalled for, but here I go...

This whole thing, well it sounds like a little kid talking, and I'm going to assume that's your intelligence going down on account of your apparent anger. That, and the poor spelling does not help your case.

Anyway, I'll stand with DW here. If you can't go fast in Adventure, then you just suck at it. I myself can get going pretty fast, even as the slower characters like Big and Amy. (BIG: find a slope and run down it. Now avoid hitting things. AMY: Jump. For some reason, her aerial acceleration is through the roof.)

The reason I like Adventure's control better? You already know this, it's because I like being able to direct Sonic in more than 3 directions at any given time. Need a boost? Spin-dash or Air Dash, your choice, and they're both fast. Additional bonus? There's no gauge limiting either one.

[DimensionWarped]

Alrighty, there's no need to jump in on my behalf. I don't think this should turn into a fight. And I wasn't really talking about auxiliary characters, the slowness complaint would be perfectly legitimate for them.

[fumetsusozo]

Um anyways.

http://segabits.com/blog/2013/05/18/sonic-lost-world-to-be-all-new-says-sega/

So seems there indeed will be new characters in this game. And some kind of all new gameplay too?. Welp sounds good to me!. And I'm still overly excited for this game! oh yes!

[Serephim]

That article was useless. As always, we'll probably be able to tell if this is a decent game or not the moment gameplay surfaces.

I am so, so, soooo hoping they stay full 3-D and ditch that retarded 2.5D stuff. There was nothing more exciting in generations than seeing 3D versions of 2D stages. There was nothing more annoying than having to then switch back to 2.5D to play a bastardized version of them.

[Jassbec]

That article was useless. As always, we'll probably be able to tell if this is a decent game or not the moment gameplay surfaces.

I am so, so, soooo hoping they stay full 3-D and ditch that retarded 2.5D stuff. There was nothing more exciting in generations than seeing 3D versions of 2D stages. There was nothing more annoying than having to then switch back to 2.5D to play a bastardized version of them.

first of all..

Flame shield activated.

I enjoy 2.5 sections in SUnl, SCol and SGen more than the 3D ones because they feel, um, more natural and less heavy. (i must admit, Sonic controls awesome in Colors)

I'm no Classic f**, but i don't really enjoy 3D sections after '06.

Now don't get me wrong, i like 3D sections, but not as much as 2.5D

[Duckboy]

Man I can't disagree harder with Sereph. I love the 2.5D levels. I love sidescrolling platforming. They actually managed to make Sonic's 3D levels a lot of fun. But the sidescrolling levels were a lot more fun to me.

Or perhaps some people just have different tastes in gameplay. there's a thought?. And I for 1 play games to just enjoy myself. And running insanely fast is 1 thing that brings me such joy. And what is insulting me suppose to do again? To prove your opinion is better then mine? Ha! that's almost cute. How old are you again? and how about you go and enjoy what you want and I'll go do the same? It's a video game. learn to lighten up a little.

Sonic has never been about blazing speed though. The entire point of his character is that he's fast, but the old games that are considered the best by the majority, Sonic never really ran all that fast. He couldn't, because the platforming simply wouldn't have worked. The newer games seem to view Sonic's gameplay more as speed first, platforming second when it should be the other way around.

[Jassbec]

Man I can't disagree harder with Sereph. I love the 2.5D levels. I love sidescrolling platforming. They actually managed to make Sonic's 3D levels a lot of fun. But the sidescrolling levels were a lot more fun to me.

Sonic has never been about blazing speed though. The entire point of his character is that he's fast, but the old games that are considered the best by the majority, Sonic never really ran all that fast. He couldn't, because the platforming simply wouldn't have worked. The newer games seem to view Sonic's gameplay more as speed first, platforming second when it should be the other way around.

Totally agree.

[DimensionWarped]

The 3D sections of Generations just highlighted how barren they are compared to the 2D segments really. I personally think they should stick to 2D as much as possible.

[TailsSena]

I would rather it be a 3D platforming game that focuses more on level design than speed. Sonic can survive without speed, but not without fun gameplay. (And no, the two are not one and the same, though they can very easily go hand-in-hand.)

[Rawr]

2D/3D, who cares. I just care if its good.

Not that I'll be playing it I bet unless Dimps isn't handling the 3DS version and that version doesn't suck.

[Serephim]

Man I can't disagree harder with Sereph. I love the 2.5D levels. I love sidescrolling platforming. They actually managed to make Sonic's 3D levels a lot of fun. But the sidescrolling levels were a lot more fun to me.

It didn't bother me too much in Unleashed because that was the debut, and for the most part it didn't really detract anything from the speed aspect of the stages. Colors sort of bothered me with the disproportional amount of sidescrolling because I wasn't expecting it, but the 2D gameplay was heavily designed around those situational gimmicks and such, so in the end it was real enjoyable.

But in generations, it was nothing but annoying to me. They included the classical stages, so you could play the "modern remake" of old stages through classical gameplay. But the Modern stages in Generations were the first to feel voluminous, and not just really long. Nothing felt cooler than jumping on that poofy cloud in Sky Sanctuary, or the ridiculous paths and secret shortcuts you could take in Seaside hill. I feel like Generations was the first game where they didn't need 2.5D in the modern stages to accomplish any platforming or multiple paths, and that was a really big step forward.

It was especially noticeable to me by the time you hit the Dreamcast section, and STILL had to deal with 2.5D sections in 3D stages where you already know the entire layout. You're busy waiting for awesome landmarks or new departures, and instead you just get a 2.5D platforming section with rotating platforms and whatnot.

[TheJeli]

I was reading the thread about this on Sonic Retro and Josh made a very good point.

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=31396&st=75

I won't bother re-typing everything, but classic gameplay just doesn't work in 3D. The platforming sections of Adventure weren't the same as the platforming sections in the classics.

A sonic game can be good without it being classic sonic in 3D. It just has to be fun and challenging.

[OverbounD]

Arguing that classic Sonic game play wouldn't work in 3D, doesn't make any sense since the fact that a game would be 3D would fundamentally change how any control scheme would work. However the Spin Dash from Sonic Adventure, and momentum could work just fine in 3D. Provided levels were designed for them to work well with.

[DimensionWarped]

We have yet to have a 3D Sonic game with classic Sonic gameplay that managed to implement rolling in a way that didn't feel completely off-target and half-assed though.

[ila]

Too many walls of text, so I'll just say that I wouldn't mind if Sega just built off what they did with Colors, just bigger and better.

[Serephim]

SA1/2's rolling really worked no different than it did in the classic series. Moving through the stages by running never hindered you, but using rolling momentum made you go waaaay faster than running.

It was a bit broken in SA1 because you could cancel the rolling, but I dont think it really took anything from the game.

[Candescence]

My personal take is that the only reason they're using 2.5D is because the 3D gameplay simply doesn't stand up on its own two feet, and Sonic Team knows it. The 'Modern' style of gameplay is mostly inherently shallow and is a dead-end design wise.

'Classic' gameplay in 3D is certainly workable. You just need to give Sonic tight control and adjust his acceleration so he doesn't go zooming off all over the place.

[OverbounD]

I think it's a matter of the skill of programmers more than anything. Up until Unleashed the games all suffered from the same problems: bad cameras and bad collision detection.

Sonic Team has managed to make these less of a problem recently by limiting 3D sections. But the fact remains that they don't seem capable of creating a smooth 3D engine. Mario Galaxy team they are not.

[Serephim]

My personal take is that the only reason they're using 2.5D is because the 3D gameplay simply doesn't stand up on its own two feet, and Sonic Team knows it. The 'Modern' style of gameplay is mostly inherently shallow and is a dead-end design wise.

But Generations proved this wasn't quite the case at all, it was really just a shift in what the stages were trying to accomplish. Some of the Gen. modern stages had alot of vertical and horizontal expansion to them. Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill had a respectable amount of secrets to their design. Seaside Hill had more alternate paths and stuff to explore than a typical Sonic Adventure stage. And the vast majority of them were all through 3D exploration.

This is why the 2D sections in Colors and Generations started to bother me so much. They tease you with fun exploration of the environments, right before literally throwing you on rails again.

[BlitznBurst]

Rolling in 3D would be fine if they gave it tighter controls like they did with the boost, only not quite so limiting. I'd rather nudge Sonic in the right direction than tilt the stick a little and end up crashing into a wall or off a cliff.