An SFGHQ resource project - Ultimate Gimmick Pack for 360

[DimensionWarped]

I've been in high spirits lately to work on stuff and Ogtrax has been missing, hence I've been bouncing around erratically between projects... So right now, I'm pleased to announce a resource that I intend to throw some effort into.

In the effort to provide people new to the fangame scene, I intend to start working on an overall pack of already made gimmicks consisting of almost every interesting mechanical gimmick from Sonic 1 to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. By mechanical gimmick, I mean something that the player interacts with which in turn interacts with the player.

Examples include some of the stuff I've been doing for Slingerland, which currently includes swinging platforms like those seen in Aqua Ruin and a working imitation of the screw/nut combination seen in Metropolis Zone. Right now, I'm also working on these:

Ice Cap Zone Trampoline

Now, the basic premise behind this project is the creation of gimmicks... particularly those gimmicks that are highly based in Newtonian physics. For that reason, I'm looking to the games for early inspiration, but at the same time, just recycling mechanics found in the game gets boring. So, for the sake of having some fun and so that I can leach ideas in exchange for actualization, lets try to come up with some new gimmicks.

Like for instance, that one up is, at its core, nothing more than a trampoline. The player hits the trampoline's platform, the player's kinetic energy (basically just a function of y velocity) is slowly converted to spring potential energy (which is reflected in the position of the platform... and thus the character; also, while the player holds the down key down, potential energy is produced more efficiently), and then when the kinetic energy is exhausted, it snaps back. The returning speed of the platform is given by a relationship of the current potential energy stored (which of course is being transfered back into kinetic energy at this point, only its being stored as a different value this time so as to make programming it easier). Because the platform is bound by springs, the platform will always be back at its initial position when the player's velocity exceeds the platforms and is thus launched. At the initial position, the y acceleration of the platform is zero.

Also, while the player is not in contact with the platform, the restoring rate (not to be confused with force, which is the same), is much higher. In this instance, both kinetic and potential energy of the platform approach zero much faster.

Anyway, thats the general idea. I want people to think about physical things like that, suggest a gimmick to make, and then describe how it reacts. Using that as a basis, I will make a gimmick embedded with the 360 engine and eventually release it as an engine template to compliment our current collection of 360 primers.

EDIT:

Also, to anyone who has already made and programmed gimmicks for the 360 engine, I'd be glad to look at them and integrate them into the primer eventually.

EDIT: I also intend to release both MMF and GM versions. Since GM is more optimized and uses a nicer scripting language, I'll probably lag more behind on the MMF version at any given time than the GM version.

[TRD]

Sounds great! Looking forward to it. Nice Work, DW and Slingerland.

[MidimanNull]

Sounds great, gimmicks are really the only thing people havent done in those fangled 360 engines.

You should probably ask Sir Euan/Nite for help, since theyve conquered a few things ( corkscrews & pulleys for example )

[Sir Euan]

Sounds great, gimmicks are really the only thing people havent done in those fangled 360 engines.

You should probably ask Sir Euan/Nite for help, since theyve conquered a few things ( corkscrews & pulleys for example )

I might come up with ideas for some of our new gimicks, but Nitemare is the guy that can make them work!

[Slingerland]

Sounds great! Looking forward to it. Nice Work, DW and Slingerland.

Oh no...I haven't done anything. He's been working on all the gimmicks post-SAGE. Ya, the Cosmic Chaos gimmicks are me, but when swinging platforms came to town, DW had to pick them up and now he's doing this great thing.

[EDIT] Ya, know I'm contributing to this awesome project. Forget what I said above.

[TRD]

Oh O.K. DW told me you guys were working on an engine together so.

[Aerosol]

new gimmicks? This is right up my alley. Not my anus, my alley

[LarkSS]

Like for instance, that one up is, at its core, nothing more than a trampoline. The player hits the trampoline's platform, the player's kinetic energy (basically just a function of y velocity) is slowly converted to spring potential energy (which is reflected in the position of the platform... and thus the character; also, while the player holds the down key down, potential energy is produced more efficiently), and then when the kinetic energy is exhausted, it snaps back. The returning speed of the platform is given by a relationship of the current potential energy stored (which of course is being transfered back into kinetic energy at this point, only its being stored as a different value this time so as to make programming it easier). Because the platform is bound by springs, the platform will always be back at its initial position when the player's velocity exceeds the platforms and is thus launched. At the initial position, the y acceleration of the platform is zero.

Also, while the player is not in contact with the platform, the restoring rate (not to be confused with force, which is the same), is much higher. In this instance, both kinetic and potential energy of the platform approach zero much faster.

My lord, it's science class all over again. =<

In order to suggest a gimmick, must such big words *shot* technical terms be used? I believe you could easily say something like for that trampoline thing that when Sonic lands on it, set Sonic's Y velocity to the spring force which makes it go down, but it slowly decreases until it goes back up to steady itself and as it goes up, it increases at a much greater speed to launch you at a greater height than which you've came from. ( Of course, you're going to need a limit or it'll endlessly bounce you higher. )

[DimensionWarped]

No, feel free to give a simple description, but I was just talking in terms of how I try to think about problems. Its an innate nature of pretty much anyone in a calculus based physics class.

Also, there is a natural limit imposed on it by the 360 engine in the form of maximum vertical velocity.

[Slingerland]

Oh O.K. DW told me you guys were working on an engine together so.

Ya, he's just adding stuff beyond my abilities (which is a lot of stuff). Oh sh*t...time to go do corkscrews.

[LarkSS]

No, feel free to give a simple description, but I was just talking in terms of how I try to think about problems. Its an innate nature of pretty much anyone in a calculus based physics class.

Also, there is a natural limit imposed on it by the 360 engine in the form of maximum vertical velocity.

Alright then, so I got a gimmick. It's a vertical wall ( or better described as a vertical trampoline sitting on its side ) made out of maybe around 6-10 circles. ( About the size of a bridge circle piece. ) When Sonic runs into it, his horizontal speed is transfered into the wall thing and into the wall's push force or whatever you want to call it. The wall begins to move back ( depended on which side you hit it from ), but the force stored in it decreases. As it becomes steady and returns, it speeds up to its normal position faster than how it became drawn back ( maybe 3-5 times as fast ), which slings Sonic back faster than the speed he hit it at by setting Sonic's horizontal speed to the speed or force the wall was moving when it reached its normal position. ( The wall doesn't have to suddenly stop though. You can make it go past its normal position a bit and then swing back and forth and back again littler and littler each time until it's normal again. )

Ya, I basically explained what I said before, but for a trampoline flipped on its side. The circles don't have to be chunky like the bridge circles necessarily, but may be like the rings in the Ice Cap spring. Also, this same idea can be applied for trampolines with diagonal positions.

Btw, maybe you could make the trampoline I talked about do something special like if you push a block into it as far as you can and then jump, the block will be sent flying in the opposite direction you pushed it in and could even be used to break a wall that it ends up hitting. Also you could make a tunnel filled with rocks that you can't seem to break, but if you use the trampoline for extra spindash speed, you'll be able to smash them all. ( Ya, my mind is usually thinking pretty well in the early morning. )

[Slingerland]

Coming up with original gimmicks is hard, eh? Seriously, man...I'm trying to push the originality, of Nexus without it stepping into Advance/Adventure territory, which sucks.

[VectorSatyr]

* Anti-gravity grinding (they probably did that in Rush, but to hell if I know...)

* Catapult (A lever that, when Sonic collides with it, will pull back up to a full 180. If Sonic makes the 180, the lever will lock in place, and he'll drop downward from there; otherwise, it will launch him backwards like a cannon at twice his original speed, forcing him into a spin. For the type of lever I'm thinking of, think of a semi-circle)

* Vertical corkscrew (it curves upward like a loop piece, and then twists around like licoriche. The end piece is a curve back into the proper direction. Yes, I'm thinking of Marble Gardens, but... Marble Gardens always had ones that went downward, and they were always connected to a loop...)

More later...

[DimensionWarped]

Alright then, so I got a gimmick. It's a vertical wall ( or better described as a vertical trampoline sitting on its side ) made out of maybe around 6-10 circles. ( About the size of a bridge circle piece. ) When Sonic runs into it, his horizontal speed is transfered into the wall thing and into the wall's push force or whatever you want to call it. The wall begins to move back ( depended on which side you hit it from ), but the force stored in it decreases. As it becomes steady and returns, it speeds up to its normal position faster than how it became drawn back ( maybe 3-5 times as fast ), which slings Sonic back faster than the speed he hit it at by setting Sonic's horizontal speed to the speed or force the wall was moving when it reached its normal position. ( The wall doesn't have to suddenly stop though. You can make it go past its normal position a bit and then swing back and forth and back again littler and littler each time until it's normal again. )

Ya, I basically explained what I said before, but for a trampoline flipped on its side. The circles don't have to be chunky like the bridge circles necessarily, but may be like the rings in the Ice Cap spring. Also, this same idea can be applied for trampolines with diagonal positions.

Btw, maybe you could make the trampoline I talked about do something special like if you push a block into it as far as you can and then jump, the block will be sent flying in the opposite direction you pushed it in and could even be used to break a wall that it ends up hitting. Also you could make a tunnel filled with rocks that you can't seem to break, but if you use the trampoline for extra spindash speed, you'll be able to smash them all. ( Ya, my mind is usually thinking pretty well in the early morning. )

Hmmm... I'm not quite seeing it. Could you perhaps make a picture? I'm kinda thinking you mean a wall that kinda just ejects you. Really, I'm not thinking that would be too practical for a Sonic game though.

In other news, I'm adding this onto my list of gimmicks that I'm working on...

And my current list of stuff to do and release right now includes:

Screw and Nut from Metropolis Zone (done, MMF only right now), This thing you see above you, which I'm just going to call the Lava Reef 2 Turbine, Flying Battery Zone's monkey bars, and of course the trampoline above.

In additon, I'm also doing some things exclusively for Nexus, including a mine cart ride styled after the ones in Kirby Superstar, a halfpipe, modeled after the half pipe in Sonic Advance 2, and a unique spindash related gimmick... but thats just to tease you all.

EDIT:

* Anti-gravity grinding (they probably did that in Rush, but to hell if I know...)

* Catapult (A lever that, when Sonic collides with it, will pull back up to a full 180. If Sonic makes the 180, the lever will lock in place, and he'll drop downward from there; otherwise, it will launch him backwards like a cannon at twice his original speed, forcing him into a spin. For the type of lever I'm thinking of, think of a semi-circle)

* Vertical corkscrew (it curves upward like a loop piece, and then twists around like licoriche. The end piece is a curve back into the proper direction. Yes, I'm thinking of Marble Gardens, but... Marble Gardens always had ones that went downward, and they were always connected to a loop...)

More later...

I'm not doing any grinding, and I'm not quite certain exactly what you mean for the catapult, so a crude picture would be great.

As for the vertical corkscrews, thats a fairly nifty idea, so I'll see what I can do with that... probably by just adopting Dami's horizontal corkscrew code a little

[Kain]

I've implemented more than a couple of gimmicks in my time, but I find myself saying they were all poorly implemented or extremely specialized for my engines. Here's an implementation one of the rolling logs that you spin as you stand on them:

http://kainsirusque.googlepages.com/rlog.gm6

The character's very much a placeholder charcter, but it uses methods similar to 360 engines and none of the important code is in him. Anyway, I've also implemented stuff like the pendulum platform swings, the rolling spike logs, the vine swing, etc. But most of that stuff is just derived from a good moving platform engine inside Sonic, which isn't hard to pull off.

[DimensionWarped]

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that one.

[hRook]

HPZ bridge. Hilltop see-saw. Chemical Plant style spindash tubes. Casino Night/S3&K Lightning Ball Special Stage pinball flippers. I could go on.

Haha, DW I want to help with this stuff. Get at me on AIM later.

[DimensionWarped]

It needs to be the HPZ bridge then and not just the boring old Emerald Hill version? Not that it makes a particular difference or anything. Both are fairly easy.

Oh, and Slingerland already made some pinball flippers. So either I get his permission to use those for the template or I have to just plain keep myself from looking at it so as not to rip him off :/

[Glaber]

So is the games factory (1) being ignored?

[DimensionWarped]

To be as frank as possible, yes.

[VectorSatyr]

... I'm not quite certain exactly what you mean for the catapult, so a crude picture would be great.

http://woodtoyshop.com/Images/catapult.jpg

Remove the bottom block. This goes on the side of a platform. The lever's end should be sitting right near the edge, waiting for the player. He hits it, it pulls back. If it pulls back all the way (180 degrees), it drops him. Otherwise, it flings him back.

[Slingerland]

Oh, and Slingerland already made some pinball flippers. So either I get his permission to use those for the template or I have to just plain keep myself from looking at it so as not to rip him off :/

Dude, I'll put any gimmicks I made myself into the pack, post-Nexus completion on a few items, of course, to hold on to as much originality as possible [*]. Stuff I made includes:

[*]Palmtree Panic Wall Run

Pinball Flippers

[*]Slot Machines

Treadmills

Bumpers

[*]Corkscrews

Grinding [this gimmick will not be in Nexus, but I did makes it]

Breakable Walls [with DW speed tweak]

Collapsable Ground

Anything else I make will also be added as it comes about. So, yes, now I can accept TRD's "way to go" a page back for contributing. But yeah, DW is head of the gimmick department as of right now. I'll still do some, but I'm focusing more on the level design and BG creation.

Hopefully, this whole project will help what DW and I have been longing to see for a while: better quality fangames, yo. Community service, lolz.

[DimensionWarped]

http://woodtoyshop.com/Images/catapult.jpg

Remove the bottom block. This goes on the side of a platform. The lever's end should be sitting right near the edge, waiting for the player. He hits it, it pulls back. If it pulls back all the way (180 degrees), it drops him. Otherwise, it flings him back.

Ah, I get it now. Yeah, I can see how that would work and already have the method to do it in mind.

Basically it would just be another potential to kinetic energy problem, only the kinetic energy would be a function of angular velocity instead of linear velocity so I'd have to do all the usual cheesy trig stuff.

[Asuma]

What about some Mushroom Hill Zone Gimmicks? I'd love to help. I know how to do some stuff.=P

[VectorSatyr]

New idea time!

Easy one... just a platform that, when sonic steps on it, flips itself (and the room gravity) upside down. Great for room transitions.