Sonic Worlds Delta 1.3 Released

[Techokami]

Hmmm, kind of is a bug.

It's to do with not letting the player drown while entering a special stage... I've come up with a better solution if you want to change it in your own copy.

Line 2179, remove the action "Deactivate the group "Water (Post)", and add in the action "(Player_Others) Set Air to 0". Doesn't replace the drowning music with the regular music, but at least bubbles won't freeze up.

This fix will be part of the next release.

[SladeDigital]

I really have to say i've been following this project for so long

and thank you all who've worked on this projected and devoted so much of their time , just so they could share it with the rest of the community

Goodjob!

[Clouder]

I have a question. Could anybody change this build of Sonic Worlds so that it doesn't need joystick2.mfx? It won't run on my PC because of it.

[Clouder]

I also get an error saying: "Cannot load KcArray.mfx." I NEED HELP!

[Ayling]

If you have a legit version of MMF2 you can install them from the extension packs- http://www.clickteam.com/website/world/download-centre-mmf2

If it isn't a legit copy, no one here will help you.

[Techokami]

I have a question. Could anybody change this build of Sonic Worlds so that it doesn't need joystick2.mfx? It won't run on my PC because of it.

Update DirectX. Get the updater from here. If that fails to work, copy the file "xinput1_3.dll" from the Dependencies folder in the distribution of Worlds Delta to the System32 folder within the Windows folder on your system. For more information, please read the readme file inside the Dependencies folder.

I also get an error saying: "Cannot load KcArray.mfx." I NEED HELP!

You need to install the Bonus Packs, which require a legitimate MMF2 license to install. If you own a legitimate copy, go here to get the Bonus Packs. If you don't own a legitimate copy, buy a copy now and don't come back until you do!

[GSF]

The "cannot load" errors aren't because of lack of the extension. If the extension is not installed, whether it is from a bonus pack or not, it'll say "The following extension is required" or something like that.

The cannot load error is really annoying and I still don't know exactly what causes it. There's a few threads where we had people run through the same issue. These errors happen even on legit installations.

Also, isn't kcarray the default normal array that is included in MMF2 by default? I don't remember that being part of a bonus pack.

I'm guessing the extension files are all mismatched, or the ḾMF2 build is too old.

Update MMF2 and see what happens. (The updaters require a legit installation. If you don't have one... then you're just not going to fix this until you get one.)

[Techokami]

The "cannot load" errors aren't because of lack of the extension. If the extension is not installed, whether it is from a bonus pack or not, it'll say "The following extension is required" or something like that.

The cannot load error is really annoying and I still don't know exactly what causes it. There's a few threads where we had people run through the same issue. These errors happen even on legit installations.

That's an issue of MMF2 being too old. As long as your installation of MMF2 is legit, go to Help -> Check for Update and get the latest version (build R257.12) which will update kcarray.mfx to the latest version. It's probably erroring because we've been using features CLickteam added to the extension over the years.

[DimensionWarped]

You all have effectively destroyed Sonic Worlds Delta (and in effect the whole engine since it's the version with the most visibility right now) with your requirement of using recent versions. Just say'in.

[Techokami]

Sorry we're using the features in the latest versions of MMF2 for this project :/

[DimensionWarped]

Sorry we're using the features in the latest versions of MMF2 for this project :/

I get it, but you've effectively made it so that most of the original people who worked on Sonic Worlds in the first place can't touch the source and the majority of people who would make games for it are also locked out from using it. It's a grand gesture and all to encourage people to go legitimate with their software, but all you've succeeded in doing is making the engine irrelevant.

IMO it's time to abandon MMF2 and start porting it to something a little more modern. Preferably something free to use. No matter how good or feature rich the engine is, if people aren't using it then the project is a failure.

[Serephim]

everyone switch to construct problem solved

[DimensionWarped]

I'm not sure Construct Classic is really the best option. It's end of life and I feel like we'd need to do some benchmarks to see if Worlds can really run at a decent clip on it. Up until now I just haven't seen Construct Classic used for anything remotely taxing. It's something worth investigating though and it's the single tool with the most similar syntax to MMF.

[GSF]

I don't see the problem with using the latest versions - MMF2 is notable for being fuck-unstable anyway (god the first builds), and I'm sure that most of the people who've worked on it have a license.

I see it as a convenient stopper for "stick graphics from TSR into Worlds" cheap game attempts. If someone's serious enough to work with Worlds, an MMF2 license isn't that steep. I've seen that CT wants to go Steam Greenlight as well, which might make things even cheaper.

So I don't see it as irrelevant. I see a lot of people making projects with Worlds (Sonic and not-Sonic), so again: not irrelevant. And if someone really wants to go ahead with the non-legit route, I think that having a slightly less feature filled Worlds is a decent tradeoff. Old builds are still around...

[DimensionWarped]

Compare the number of projects being made in Worlds now to a few years ago and you'll realize the engine has lost a significant amount of audience over the years. Nine times out of ten when I hear about a project being made with Worlds lately, it's a split from some old crappy build to boot. The real quandary of what you are saying though is that if you are serious enough to be working with Worlds on a scale that isn't just playing around with the engine, then you should be serious enough to be able to see what a pain in the ass MMF2 is to work with and to be aware that there is better stuff out there.

Worlds needs to be forked to something decent and usable to a much wider audience or it's just going to stagnate and die out. Continuing to build off of r250 forever to support pirates is obviously a stupid approach, and I don't see Click Team wanting a sum of money that isn't high for a hobbyist oriented tool (compared to their competition... competition which generally does better work), so it's safe to say this incarnation of Worlds has run its course.

[Techokami]

The problem with Construct is that Classic is a ROMhack of abandoned code and C2 still needs some more time in the oven. You COULD use Game Maker, but don't you need to purchase a Pro license to take advantage of what it has to offer? E02 would be ideal if it wasn't so cryptic to utilize properly.

As for the cost of MMF2, well first of all you don't *NEED* Developer. Making a fangame? Standard is more than enough. And I posted a link earlier in the thread (top of this page actually) to a site that is selling cheap copies of the game. And if you're a student, there's cheaper places to get it. Like here, for $83.95.

Now, something I've been considering doing is, when Construct 2 matures a bit more, I will be making an official port of Worlds Delta to it. Yes I know, C2 isn't free, but it's cheaper than MMF2.

Also, if MMF2 makes it onto Steam, I'll grab a couple of copies and raffle them off...

[DimensionWarped]

I think this warrants more discussion. Construct 2 is interesting and it's something I could actually see myself getting behind for a porting project, but I question whether the effort would be worth it. I'm not sure how popular Construct 2 is, but I'm pretty sure the userbase is still a small fraction of what you see with GM and MMF. I think we need to draft a proper list of requirements and figure out exactly what software is out there, is actually popular and accessible to a large crowd, and doesn't have too many major drawbacks.

Game Maker (8 at least) is less than ideal for other reasons, most notably the lack of anything resembling a decent level editor. But the licenses are generally cheaper than MMF2 by a considerable amount and unlike with MMF2, there are actually sales once in a blue moon.

I'm not sure if any of that applies to Game Maker Studio and the ability to use version control software could contribute significantly to team efforts at improving the engine as well as just having a decent version history as opposed to the hodgepodge of links we have lying around right now.

Construct 2 unfortunately isn't particularly cheap unless you get it on sale. In fact, it costs the same as MMF2. It also doesn't have a particularly large user-base and since it isn't a free program that is going to be a sticking point for getting traction.

Let's not even think about E02. It's too esoteric to consider and the intricacies will chase away beginners. Everything has to stay accessible.

[Zeritar]

So, is this the place to post bugs? I experienced this in 1.3, and it's still there in 1.3.2

For some reason, I collide with an invisible wall right here, as illustrated in the picture. I found the spot in the level editor, but there's nothing there at all.

[Techokami]

Oh jesus, how did that happen?

The cause is the backdrop "Level_Backdrop_7" is set to "Collision with box" in its properties. That means it foregoes pixel precision to make the entire image (transparent areas included) a solid backdrop. So, just uncheck that box to fix it.

Sorry this even happened!

[Zeritar]

Well, that's like the only thing I didn't check. Thanks!

[Based LiBi (JoeyD)]

Bump, but relevant question

I recently (last night) spent some quality time with the engine, and I noticed in the test level that when Knuckles glides onto the top of a Badnick, he doesn't bounce up like he did in S3&K. I was gonna add that myself, but since I lack the more advanced know-how right now, I realized that lol I suck right now.

[DimensionWarped]

http://www.dimensionwarped.sonicfangameshq.com/

I solved this problem in the Madcap Grotto demo. I don't know if it's a perfect solution, in fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't, but if you want to peek at the code for it, check this topic:

http://www.sonicfangameshq.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7925

The idea is pretty simple. Upon entering the glide animation the height of the player is stored and then on bouncing, the difference between the jump height and the bounce height is used to determine how much strength the bounce should have. I've tested it a decent amount, and I think it's generally pretty accurate in that you'll bounce up roughly as high as when you started gliding.

[Guest Mr Lange]

I think this warrants more discussion. Construct 2 is interesting and it's something I could actually see myself getting behind for a porting project, but I question whether the effort would be worth it. I'm not sure how popular Construct 2 is, but I'm pretty sure the userbase is still a small fraction of what you see with GM and MMF. I think we need to draft a proper list of requirements and figure out exactly what software is out there, is actually popular and accessible to a large crowd, and doesn't have too many major drawbacks.

Game Maker (8 at least) is less than ideal for other reasons, most notably the lack of anything resembling a decent level editor. But the licenses are generally cheaper than MMF2 by a considerable amount and unlike with MMF2, there are actually sales once in a blue moon.

I'm not sure if any of that applies to Game Maker Studio and the ability to use version control software could contribute significantly to team efforts at improving the engine as well as just having a decent version history as opposed to the hodgepodge of links we have lying around right now.

Construct 2 unfortunately isn't particularly cheap unless you get it on sale. In fact, it costs the same as MMF2. It also doesn't have a particularly large user-base and since it isn't a free program that is going to be a sticking point for getting traction.

Let's not even think about E02. It's too esoteric to consider and the intricacies will chase away beginners. Everything has to stay accessible.

I wish I saw this discussion back then.

Userbase shouldn't be the concern. The point of this port is that Construct is so much more intuitive as a program than MMF2, and can do a lot of things that MMF2 can't, and a lot of other things far more easily. On top of that everything in it is hardware accelerated, much more so than the supposedly hardware accelerated version of MMF2. I wouldn't want to see it ported to Construct 2 though, agreeing that the price is a nasty point. I really believe it should be ported to the original Construct, which is totally free and still very powerful.

If fangame developers are looking for a program to use, and Worlds is on Construct which works very much like MMF2 but is more intuitive and more powerful, then userbase will not matter. Construct will be the natural choice from there on out. The only thing really anchoring MMF2 in place is because it's old and a lot of people have used it for a long time (that and it has a lot of useful plugins, but a lot of those aren't necessary for Sonic fangames or Construct already has it). If MMF2 and Construct were around at the same time, I don't doubt that Construct would've been the logical choice for building Sonic Worlds in. This situation should really be considered with that in mind.

[Techokami]

Sorry you're a bit late to the party, Mr. Lange, but Clickteam did an insane sale as a last hurrah for MMF2, and made it available for only $1. Pretty much everyone jumped on it and has either gotten it for themselves, gotten it for other people, and gotten a bunch of extra keys for future users.

But you're still free to make a version for Construct Classic!

[DimensionWarped]

Well, we've kicked the can down the road at the least. I'd still like to get some alternatives to MMF2 Worlds put together. I've personally been occupied with my career lately and haven't been able to dedicate as much time to projects lately sadly, so I don't have much of a leg to stand on there.