luksamuk Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Mid or end of September seems good to me. Specially end of September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverbounD Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 For some reason I think October 31st would be awesome. It might give us time to do another level DW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsSena Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm up for graphics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 For some reason I think October 31st would be awesome.It might give us time to do another level DW... Considering how long this one is taking me? Hahahah, maybe. I'm not going to ask for SAGE to be planned around a maybe possible level idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeFeperd Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 For some reason I think October 31st would be awesome. i agree there is just one more zone and 2 acts from Titanic Tower to finish SonicBTS levels... >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I sort of think October 31st might be so far into the future that it might just end up getting pushed back again. Indefinitely. I'm more for keeping the deadline in sight for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazefireLP Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Just read the site anouncment, Thanks for letting us know how things were going Smidge. I agree that it should be held in September. School may be on the way, but it is definatly not too late. I remember the first SAGE in September, it was a good one too. I am personally looking forward to this one as I believe the wait will be worth it in more ways than one. Plus, it gives us more time to refine and finish our projects to present to the communities. Now knowing I won't miss SAGE while in Los Angeles makes me feel much happier. Good job guys, I'm sure your work will pay off well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweaker Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Uh... I wasn't aware our collaboration fell through. Thanks for making an announcement before even coming to us and telling us about it, because we had no idea you were backing out whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 If it's any consolation, it's news to me as well. If I had to guess, Smidge probably just got frustrated by a lack of discussion and started arranging stuff on his own (well, with PC0). Don't be offended, it just started to look like the whole thing was about to slip through the cracks. And we can always work a little harder to get something arranged next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstantSonic Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 With no discussion coming from SFGHQ/SAGE staff on the status of SAGE, nor contact being placed to any involved members of Retro staff involving SAGE planning, I find collaborating to be an impossible endeavor to happen any time in the future between SFGHQ/Retro if things are handled in a manner in which no effort in exchange of information takes place from SFGHQ staff. We've been left in the dark, and given nothing to go on. Personally, I'm sick of seeing Retro and it's staff being stepped on by SFGHQ because nobody could think far enough ahead to try to type text to anyone involved at Retro. It's funny how Tristan Bresnan knows more about our "collaboration" than we did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey, exchange of information is a two way street. This topic has been around for two months now with minimal activity, and if you really wanted to get Retro involved, this thread would have been a perfect place to do so. No one around here knew what was going on except in a most minimal sort of sense and this has been a worrisome issue to many of us. As for Tristan, I don't know anything about what he knows, but I seriously doubt very much that he knows anything more than what was posted on the main page by Smidge. You can hardly fault Smidge for the fact that Tristan actually reads the main page. Who could have possibly known. Nobody reads the main page. Besides, it hardly seems too late to put some sort of stake into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USC Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm honestly not sure I should say anything, being as I am/was only involved with coding part of SAGE's front page, but in case this is useful to anyone... What I was hearing during the planning 'meeting' was that while everyone involved was hoping to do the grand collaboration, Smidge was having a hard time getting in touch with anyone at Sonic Retro. So, we started doing our own thing as a back-up plan in case it all fell through. From what little I know, it seems like miscommunication on both sides, and hopefully that can be worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweaker Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 There's no miscommunication. All of our contact information is publicly available on a multitude of mediums, Skype included (where, to my best knowledge, all of this information was actually being coordinated). Worst case scenario, a good number of us are available on both IRC and on Sonic Retro's forums, which we all check regularly. That is not an excuse. He is either lying or he outright did not try. I'm sorry, but if there was any lack of communication it was on your end. We've always been available; in fact, we've been rather concerned at the distinct lack of communication going on between the two teams. For us to learn that there was even a problem now instead of later is seriously disconcerting. This is not conduct cohesive to positive collaboration. I don't like the idea that we're just being shoved off to the side after months of planning and discussion. We're not as disposable as you want to make us seem. Regardless of the status of our collaboration, the fact that this is the way we're finding about any problems is, frankly, absolute horseshit. I'm not even involved in the coordination of either of these events and I'm fucking steaming. This is not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 That's a ridiculous notion. If two parties fail to communicate, it's both of their fault. Saying "Oh, well you didn't come to us" doesn't negate the fat that you didn't come to us either. The fact that you are taking this stance that sole responsibility for communication lies on one side that is organizing is just an indicator that you have unreasonable expectations. If I were on someone's pay roll and I just didn't do anything because I hadn't been assigned a task, I'd get fired and have no leg to stand on just because no one was communicating with me. In that case, expectation would have fallen on me to figure out what I should be working on. Of course, I'd also kind of expect my supervisor to get taken down with me unless the person was just totally swamped with more important issues. If you want to be involved with something, it's a good idea to speak up. Obviously this isn't quite on the level of someone being on pay roll and this was supposed to be a mutual effort, but no one spoke up and said "I want to be involved with this, tell me what we should be working on." and THAT is itself a huge part of the communication problem. I'll agree that the announcement is a little weird and any motion to cut the group effort in the event should have been met with inquiry directly, but this isn't just some sudden decision to cut Retro out. We have been seeing month after month slip by since initial planning and no one from Retro has even so much as poked their head in here until now. I don't see how you can expect our guys to be checking your common areas of communication if your guys aren't checking ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweaker Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Except we've been staying in contact the whole fucking time and were not made aware of any issues. You can't say that it's our fault that they didn't tell us they had an issue and decided to break off our collaboration. That makes literally no sense. It also defeats the notion that they tried to get in contact with us but failed since we have a multitude of methods to be contacted with. Point is, it is literally impossible to know there is an issue if the person with the issue does not bring it up. That is not our fault. You cannot paint it as our fault. It's not. It's yours. Don't try and spin this shit around on us. We're not fucking psychics. In fact, I talked to Shadix earlier on the phone and even he doesn't know what's going on; rather funny, considering he's supposed to be part of the organization team. I also recall you saying you had no idea this was happening either; weren't you part of the SAGE team as well? What you're saying makes no fucking sense. It can't even be remotely construed as any fault of our own. The disrespect we're being shown in this situation is bad enough. Don't make it worse by trying to insinuate that it's our fault that we weren't fucking told anything. We're easy to contact and more than willing to discuss the situation and make compromises. I'm sure we'd also be willing to understand a necessary break in collaboration if this wasn't the first time we'd been told we're no longer working together. But it is. And that's fucking retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nope. I wasn't part of the SAGE team in its current form at any point in time. Back when I thought Ila was going to be running it, I offered to help him with whatever he needed, but that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been so for some time. I think that's part of the problem here. The team has changed at some point and we are all on different pages. I don't know how Shadix is involved with the current organization either. And by the way, I wasn't insinuating that it was your fault. You need to tone down the scorn a little and stop trying to be insulted by everything. I was saying that you can't just force full blame one way or the other, especially when you are just getting to grips with the situation, and this sudden barnstorming over here bitching about a breakdown in a collaboration which was announced months ago and then just completely vanished without much legitimate input beyond "let's have a joint SAGE"... that's not productive. What would be productive is getting a feel for the situation and figuring out what to do about it from here. Last I heard, most of the grunt work has been done and the site framework has been set up. I presume that's why Smidge made the announcement. He's been asking for help in this thread and only a handful of people mentioned contributing anything. At some point most of the actual work needed for setting up got down by him and a couple other people. I think the best thing to do right now is wait for some clarification by Smidge. I don't doubt that there is still plenty of room for Retro to help with organization of the event, it's just that we need to know who from Retro wants to get involved in what. There's only so much to do though once the site itself is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarred Sun Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Good grief. It's like SAGE is the Titanic and everybody's gotta be Kate Winslet today. Here's the fact of the matter, as I see it: I tried to keep in the loop and effectively got cut out. The Skype planning chats? OK, I was there. The Google Docs preparation sheets? OK, I was involved with those. We need a coordination forum between SFGHQ and Retro? OK, I'll set one up. People talking in #fangames? OK, I'm there or getting relays from people who are. And then everything falls quiet on my end, so I assume there's nothing on that front, only to hear all this. Smidge, I respect your feelings on SAGE and everything we discussed months ago, but quite frankly, this is ridiculous, and trying to insinuate it was Retro's lack of cooperation is just silly. I can only give you resources and help out if someone contacts me to let me know how to do that. What I did get when I was contacted was basically "hey SS, sign off all of this for us," and I know that would have just made people even more upset, because SAGE isn't even my thing. I can't magically know if there's planning going on elsewhere if no one bothers to tell me. Come and talk to me. I'm pretty much one of the easiest people to find on the Internet, even when I'm not around actively. That you haven't done so prior to now says you probably don't have any interest in doing so, but it's not a lack of willingness on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverbounD Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 With no intention of hostility, I think the problem is PC0 has been busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Everyone has been busy. I don't think anyone ever really stepped up and said "Allright, I'm going to lead this thing." and as a result, Smidge ended up doing all of the web design work, and he's not one to get involved in all of this weird political stuff, I imagine he probably just saw it as something to get done and got it done. It really does sort of come down to a question of "What help do we really need?" at that point. If we could just review the quote that seems to have you all in a tizzy here... Part of the problem is trying to work with the folks over at Sonic Retro - not they they're bad people, but the goal was to organize some kind of joint event thing where one would lead into the other and we'd have like a solid month of Sonic fandom activity. But for lots of reasons that fell apart, so things got delayed. I don't see how one word of that really pins any kind of blame on you guys. It just sort of fell apart. And frankly, this whole thing has been way more dramatic than it needed to be. There isn't that much to SAGE. A website is created, people start making websites to show off little projects, website is updated to include references to said projects, an IRC chat channel and possibly a shoutcast server is set up. That's about it. Everything else is auxiliary, and that's probably the kind of stuff we would be depending on you all for in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentril Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Retro is being blamed for this. I read his main site post just to double check and it just says that it fell apart "for lots of reasons". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverbounD Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yeah I guess now that I think about it they really did get their shit together and got a site going. I was just remembering early on when he said he was busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3DR0 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Retro is being blamed for this. I read his main site post just to double check and it just says that it fell apart "for lots of reasons". I'm pretty sure that it's because of this part: Part of the problem is trying to work with the folks over at Sonic Retro - not they they're bad people This kinda implies that main issue is because of Retro. But as I'd said, fuck this shit. Let's quit the butthurt and spread the love all over the comumunities <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yeah um, sorry P3DR0, I deleted that post because it came off as incredibly rude in spite of a generally positive message. I sent it back to you in PMs and you can post it again if you just remove any instances of 'butthurt' and 'fags' from it and just... oh, I don't know, come off as someone who is acting like a human being rather than some kind of frat orc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3DR0 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yeah um, sorry P3DR0, I deleted that post because it came off as incredibly rude in spite of a generally positive message. I sent it back to you in PMs and you can post it again if you just remove any instances of 'butthurt' and 'fags' from it and just... oh, I don't know, come off as someone who is acting like a human being rather than some kind of frat orc. Oh... Ok then... Sorry. - What does the scouter says about the complication level? - It's over 9000! I don't really know the backstory to have a solid opinion on all of this, but c'mon, SAGE is an event that exists for a decade, we all love it and we all want it. Retrofans may hold the guilty for the delay and the "lack of comunication", but SFGHQfans can also hold this guilty. And in the end I ask both of you, does it really matter? I mean, both Retro and SFGHQ are good communities and always holded members from each other. For example, when there was no Fangaming area at Retro, people came to here to expose their work, and when they had hacks and saw that nobody here really cared much, they went to Retro. So we're both big families and friends, let's all quit this bullshit of pointing fingers and saying that someone is wrong. As I said, I can't blame Smidge's atittude or Tweaker and SS', since I don't know the backstory and the dialogues that occoured at Skype or AIM between both, but honestly... I don't give a crap, and I suggest that you guys do it as well. Let's all be friends and make a good event this year, shall we? Better? Sorry 'bout the way I posted the mensage earlier. I'm kinda of rude, but also I'm kinda of awesome <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 That's a ridiculous notion. If two parties fail to communicate, it's both of their fault. Saying "Oh, well you didn't come to us" doesn't negate the fat that you didn't come to us either. The fact that you are taking this stance that sole responsibility for communication lies on one side that is organizing is just an indicator that you have unreasonable expectations. Usually this kind of thing happens when there was no indication that anything was wrong. If this were a friend who I was talking with in real life who seemed awkward in their comments, then would be a reasonable way to ask if there was something wrong. However, in this form of communication, there are several dozen ways to establish communication. Heck, could even go as far as to post a topic on the main Retro forum. The Retro staff are not hard to get a hold of. They don't hold a grudge or anything. Heck, why not try to talk about the situation right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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