Pure Chaotix

[Ironrind]

Time will all depend on the nature of the puzzle. I might make use of a timed door or a sinking ceiling with spikes to enforce quick thinking. Enemies will operate in the same fashion as usual badniks scattered about the stage. Not very many, I should say. The overall challenge will be same as traditional Sonic games.. all besides the fact that you will need the other characters at some point to complete the stage.

Here are some additional concepts:

If you did not choose the right character and cannot pass the obstacle, you will need to find the correct character. Once you find him, you'll want to lead him back to the area where you cannot pass. That's where the other character's AI sees the switch and then make his way to it via climbing, wall-hopping, or roof-sticking. To sum it up: If your stuck, just find help.

[ila]

I assume you're going to be rebalancing character moves then? Then thing about Chaotix was that all the core characters were pretty much the same. The only big exception was Charmy, but in terms of mobility he was just as well off as everyone else.

[Spike]

Then thing about Chaotix was that all the core characters were pretty much the same.

Never really thought about that...

As Knuckles you could climb up walls. As Espio, you could run up walls. As Mighty, you could jump up walls. Huh.

[ila]

Aside from Charmy and the joke characters, Vector was probably the most unique with his 8 directional double jump.

[Spike]

I've always thought that was cool.

You have to admit, though, coming up with unique and different moves for several characters in a platformer without going in to melee attacks is pretty difficult. There isn't much you can do, really, without making some characters really overpowered (Which Knuckles was in the Genesis games, using gliding to attack bosses was oh-so cheap) .

[DimensionWarped]

glide attack on bosses sucked. Insta shield was far more broken.

[Cyber Rat]

You have to admit, though, coming up with unique and different moves for several characters in a platformer without going in to melee attacks is pretty difficult.

Not really, you just have to ponder a little bit. For example, you could add special ground tiles that only Knuckles can dig through. Underwater, you could add areas with a strong current that only Vector can swim through. Small pipes that only Charmy can go though due to his size. And so on...

[DimensionWarped]

You go Rat, kick Spike's ass! BRUAAH!

Actually, I'm thinking he was talking about the non-situational type moves that are just useful all the time. In which case, he's right, coming up with unique moves is tricky. But for a puzzle game, certainly those are all good ideas.

[Cyber Rat]

Actually, I'm thinking he was talking about the non-situational type moves that are just useful all the time. In which case, he's right, coming up with unique moves is tricky.

Tricky indeed, but not too much, especially given that the characters weren't that unique in the original Chaotix to begin with. You just have to keep in mind the what the characters are.

We have Charmy the Bee. He should obviously be able to fly and carry smaller objects. You can always use this ability to scout the surroundings which, in a 3 layer game, IE a game triple the size of your normal Sonic game, is more than useful. The drawback, since he is very small, he can barely do anything against enemies, and since he IS an insect, water could be fatal.

Might the Armadillo could be able to roll into ball and gain temporary invincibility against non-elemental hazards (IE Badniks and their projectiles), but in case he falls into a pit of fire, his armor would do little. Drawback? Make him jump lower and be somewhat less mobile that the other characters.

Vector could use his crocodile tail to catapult himself in any direction, making him able to reach places other characters can't, but make it still not good enough to replace Charmy's ability to fly and scout. Turn the catapult into an attack as well, and you have a very useful ability.

And so on...

[Spike]

I'm thinking he was talking about the non-situational type moves that are just useful all the time. In which case, he's right, coming up with unique moves is tricky.

Yeah, those things Rat listed aren't really moves. I'm not sure what to call them. Advantages? Multiple-path-enablers? I don't know, but you get the point.

[Ironrind]

@Cyberat: Some good ideas. I really like the idea you brought up about charmy moving through tight spaces. Charmy will lack the ability to break through walls since he is so small. Vector may also make use of his double jump to reach buttons placed on high ceilings.

Download:

http://www.mediafire.com/?m5gmjddommr

Version 1.0 has just been completed. This is just small portion of what will be "Isolated Island". Before each stage, the goal is displayed in picture form telling you which chaotix members to find. Once they have been found, a large goal-ring will appear which acts sort of like the goal-ring in "Sonic 3d Blast". Lead them into the goal-ring and the stage is complete.

Controls:

Arrows - Move

D - Jump

F4 - Toggle Full-screen

Note: The AI is still a work in progress. You may need to spindash or jump with your teammate to get up some hills, but this will be fixed.

[Spike]

This is amazing. That being said, I've got a few things to say:

Knuckles' gliding is totally messed up. And can you make the springs solid? I keep falling off because I have to come to a complete stop and jump on them.

Those two things don't mean that this is bad by ANY means. It's just easier to list complaints than list the things I like, which are too many to name on this. Rep up.

[Ironrind]

Thanks Spike,

I took a few minutes to compare my gliding to the actual game and I see what you mean. It seems really stiff in comparison, and I will eventually add the horizontal rotation. Yeah, I can make those springs solids so that the player doesn't walk into them unexpectedly.

[GSF]

Very neat. The 'layer' concept works really well. I crashed with many badniks though, they kinda camouflage with the same colors of the level.

Keep it up, Ironrind.

[FanGameRevolver]

The level mechancnics worked really well in the demo! Enimies were well placed and scrolling through layers of platforms was a fun treat. The only problem I had was geting espio and the armadillo to follow me into the big ring (they always missed it and died...), other than that the computer AI was fun and easy to work with. Very good, and very original for a fangame.

[Ollie]

Heh, very nice concept. Although, I'm confused, is this game called True Chaotix or Pure Chaotix? Anyway, I found a little bug, just climb up the first wall to your left, not too sure what's happening there. =P

[Ironrind]

Yes, the new title is "Pure Chaotix". I changed it shortly after posting the first video on youtube. And thanks for that bug, FGR. I completely forgot to tie that area off =P

This stage may be a bit too challenging for the absolute first, although it will be one the the earlier "isolated island" challenges. I will continue to add on stages and make updates which will include vector and charmy. Thanks for the comments

[Steven M]

You probably already knew this, but I'll put it out in the open for anyone curious - in the forums, you should be able to double-click the very left of any thread you've created (not the paper icon, inbetween) to edit the title.

[Cyber Rat]

I tried finishing the stage, but my teammates kept dying because of the pits of doom, and when I finally lead them to the ring, nothing happened (I just got catapulted as if I didn't get all teammates).

Now, I know that you realize that the AI needs more work, so I'll just ignore that part. Here's a few suggestions you should consider though:

-Don't make the teammates be able to die. If any of the AI controlled characters get hit, just make them stunned so you have to touch them to continue, and if they fall into a pit of doom, just make them respawn or super-jump out of it. Going all the way to the place where you first found them just for them to die again ruins the pace of the game, as well as annoy the player.

-It would be far more interactive and fun to be able to switch between characters then to just lead them to point B and wait for them to do their thing. Make a 'toggle follow' button and 'switch character button' (just make sure it's usable only if all the characters are standing still and close to each other to avoid abuse) so you can decide when you want the AI characters to follow you and when to wait. If you keep the concept of just leading the characters and then waiting for the CPU to do something, then you have a platformer with a gimmick rather than a puzzle platformer.

[Ironrind]

That's odd. If the level didn't complete after entering mighty and espio, then there may have been a glitch in code. Possibly triggered by one of the teammates being killed, but I'll look into that.

I like the super-jump idea in case that a teammate stumbles off of the screen. There are a few more buttons that I want to add which are inspired from Knuckles Chaotix; The original hold and grab buttons. I will modify the 'hold' button in someway to issue a command to your teammate. Maybe a verbal cue like Abe's Exodus, but keeping it as simple as possible. The 'grab' might be converted to a 'switch' button. Next release will really focus more on the majority of these functions.

Edit: Oh, nice.. thanks Steven M =P

[Rael0505]

I took the liberty of editing the title to announce the demo for you, Ironrind. This is the only active thread in GFD that has a demo, and it's not getting the attention it deserves.

I really loved this. It's an extremely innovative idea, and it's looking really good so far. I agree with the comments that have been said so far, so to avoid repeating them I'm going to focus on a couple things that haven't been said:

-There are too many pits. It's hard to tell where they are, too. Several times I jumped off a ledge thinking there would be ground below, and I just died. Instead of a bunch of pits, maybe you could put some other kinds of traps? And that brings me to my next suggestion...

-Try not to get so wrapped up in your game's innovative concept that you focus your levels entirely around it alone. Remember that you still need gimmicks if you don't want it to get stale - things like swinging vines from Angel Island, spinning tops from Marble Garden, etc. This game will NOT work without it because all of the levels will feel the same, and it'll get really stale. Gimmicks are the most important part of any Sonic game. You can get away with having few gimmicks in the first zone, but later ones definitely need them. Gimmicks are the only thing that keep levels from feeling identical to each other, aside from graphics.

Another problem I had (and this is solely visual) is the way the sky cuts from purple to black. It needs a transition. I wouldn't mind trying to fix it for you, but I might not be able to get to it for a little while.

Also, here's a glitch. I don't know how it happened... I think I hit left just as I hit the wall, or something.

Really looking forward to seeing more, Ironrind. Out of the currently active threads in GFD, I'm most interested in this one. Keep it up!

[Ironrind]

While working on Sonic CB's engine, I found a better solution for Pure Chaotix's BG. I said that I'd pause on this, but the BG really needed fixing.

The background was causing a lot of problems. I wasn't able to piece together a 'wallpaper' background that would span the sky in terms of content in the further distances. The usual parallax didn't work too well with the layers. I think a skybox would work better than how I had it before.

I'm still having trouble with tiles and GM7's pixel interpolation. Any tips on that would be great.

In this vid, the d3d_fog would want to erase my skybox. I think there is a way to either set the tiles and skybox on different fog systems or to let the skybox bypass fogging entirely. So as for now, the layers blend quite a bit due to lack of fog. That'll be fixed as well.

-There are too many pits. It's hard to tell where they are, too. Several times I jumped off a ledge thinking there would be ground below, and I just died. Instead of a bunch of pits, maybe you could put some other kinds of traps? And that brings me to my next suggestion...

Maybe I'll build a lower section to the stage underwater. Nothing major. Just a few item boxes or something to rid the death pits.

-Try not to get so wrapped up in your game's innovative concept that you focus your levels entirely around it alone. Remember that you still need gimmicks if you don't want it to get stale - things like swinging vines from Angel Island, spinning tops from Marble Garden, etc. This game will NOT work without it because all of the levels will feel the same, and it'll get really stale. Gimmicks are the most important part of any Sonic game. You can get away with having few gimmicks in the first zone, but later ones definitely need them. Gimmicks are the only thing that keep levels from feeling identical to each other, aside from graphics.

I was thinking to add gimmicks which may occasionally require two or three to operate. Like a see-saw, a weighing scale, or three button system. I made some concepts on the previous pages, but I'll get them into the game.

[FanGameRevolver]

I'm still having trouble with tiles and GM7's pixel interpolation. Any tips on that would be great.

yeah, put larger gaps in between all of your tiles, and then stretch all the edges of the tiles one pixel out into the gap. The tiles will then blend with the same pixels rather then any blank spaces.

[Ironrind]

Awesome. Thanks for the help. rep+

Edit: Seems that I can't rep you at the moment. I need to spread it around a bit, but will do.

[Scarletdark]

Hey man just saw your vid on pure chaotix.

Very interesting* idea with the different "tracks" the player takes. It kinda adds to the whole Chaotix feel of the game. It's bout time someone did something cool with chaotix gameplay. Looks pretty cool man.

*by interesting I mean pretty FREKIN awesome