Open Source.

[Shane]

I'm just curious as to how many of you guys keep your games open source and how many of you don't and why you do or don't. Do you think your choice is beneficial?

To answer myself, I keep all of mine open source, because I don't care about other people looking at my work. Heck, someone might be able to fix something I didn't notice or didn't know how to. Usually if someone tries to rip someone off, most people will know, so that's not anything I'm concerned with.

Edit: To add more for discussion, how many release engines as an alternative of releasing the source code?

[Spike]

I would never make mine open sourced, for the sole reason that someone out there WILL steal it.

[Streak Thunderstorm]

Ditto. I work too hard for someone like Blazefire to come and steal my work, claim it as his own and do shit to it.

[Rael0505]

Yeah, Shane, you're an oddball as far as open source work goes. Most people here want to keep their hard work for themselves. It's very generous of you to release your work for other people's benefit though. I actually intend to release any artwork I make that's not going to Emerald Ties or Nexus (meaning anything I make for my personal project, if that ever comes into existence)

By the way, what kind of stuff do you do? Why don't you show off some of your work here?

[LarkSS]

There's nothing wrong with Open Source projects imo. No one can really get away with stealing it since most people should be easily able to identify where the real source came from, especially since it's out to the public. Open Source projects are also a great way for people to get involved and possibly help you out with future versions.

To me, the best reasons for keeping it to yourself are that the source is buggy and still wip, or that you want to try to keep it special until after you've released it for awhile.

[DimensionWarped]

Personally, I don't care if someone steals something I do. It isn't like they fool anyone for long when they do, and really, it just doesn't hurt me. The only exception I've ever had to that rule is with the work I've done for Nexus, and even then it's because thats work I'm doing for someone else.

[Shane]

By the way, what kind of stuff do you do? Why don't you show off some of your work here?

I do as much as I possibly can. I used to go under Shane Prower, but now my real name just cuts it for me. KrissuKun and I are currently working on a project together (he used to post at SAGE whereas I had stuff on a personal website) but its not going to be revealed until it's finished. We're building it from scratch, using a static engine I toyed around with a year ago or so. When release info about that is out, you'll know. After that, I hope to making some healthy contributions to this community... hope to. As I said, everything I do WILL be open source, so...

Also, I'm currently working with A.J. Freda on the SRB2 soundtrack. If anyone is interested in that, I'll post links once he's heard. I also will do any other music stuff for anyone who requests it. Right now, SRB2 is my primary project to work on. Everything I do musically is free unless anyone I'm in a band with whines for it to be otherwise.

I've worked with TGF, MMF and their "sequels", I used Game Maker 4 a LONG time ago, and could probably pick it up again, and have messed with Mode7 and (VERY LITTLE) C. I used to do spriting and am currently making a spritesheet of myself (woo) to put for cameos in games. As I recall, this community used to be pretty big on that stuff. I have Photoshop and have had it for a while, enough said.

When I have something to show off, I'll post it. I'm generally a nice guy unless you come off as a jerk... So that's me for those of you who cared.

On Topic:

As for open source; like the others said, if anyone tries to steal it, the source is usually easily tracable. If the guys like you mentioned got caught, they obviously don't get too far with it, right?

[cyborg_ar]

Well, about open source, its a very good way of developing software, and works really well, but it's success depends on the good intentions of the people (much more if you use a license less strong than the GPL).

I've found that in this community its a bit difficult to open source stuff.. because (mainly the new members) don't really understand what it means, maybe just seeing it as a way of getting free pre-made stuff, without feeling the need of collaborating with the main project whatsoever. (please, don't get this as an offense, I'm just expressing my point of view)

Other good point against Open Source in fangame projects is that "if you dont do it yourself you will not learn." well that's true, actually it fits my argument that some people just see open source as a way of getting loads of free premade stuff without effort. But... if you understand OS, and start "giving back what you got" contributing with the project, everyone will benefit from that, mostly YOU. how? well, first, you will have to actually learn how it was made and how it can be improved to suit your needs/desires. you will gain status as a contributing member, who brought us neat stuff. and you will feel better because you did put some effort to "pay" what you got, giving your fangame/project much more value.

I say all the above based on my experience working in a big Open Source project, namely Blender. and its really like that, it felt really good when i submitted my first ridiculously small patch, and it got accepted in the main codebase, now i can say "hey i coded those 10 lines of code", nobody else will care, but i do.

Shane, please use NORMAL SIZED LETTERS! I'm not shortsighted, but it bothers me to read ant-sized text, more if it is in other language.

...and you can shrink your avatar too by the way.

[Shane]

Well, about open source, its a very good way of developing software, and works really well, but it's success depends on the good intentions of the people (much more if you use a license less strong than the GPL).

I've found that in this community its a bit difficult to open source stuff.. because (mainly the new members) don't really understand what it means, maybe just seeing it as a way of getting free pre-made stuff, without feeling the need of collaborating with the main project whatsoever. (please, don't get this as an offense, I'm just expressing my point of view)

Other good point against Open Source in fangame projects is that "if you dont do it yourself you will not learn." well that's true, actually it fits my argument that some people just see open source as a way of getting loads of free premade stuff without effort. But... if you understand OS, and start "giving back what you got" contributing with the project, everyone will benefit from that, mostly YOU. how? well, first, you will have to actually learn how it was made and how it can be improved to suit your needs/desires. you will gain status as a contributing member, who brought us neat stuff. and you will feel better because you did put some effort to "pay" what you got, giving your fangame/project much more value.

I say all the above based on my experience working in a big Open Source project, namely Blender. and its really like that, it felt really good when i submitted my first ridiculously small patch, and it got accepted in the main codebase, now i can say "hey i coded those 10 lines of code", nobody else will care, but i do.

Shane, please use NORMAL SIZED LETTERS! I'm not shortsighted, but it bothers me to read ant-sized text, more if it is in other language.

...and you can shrink your avatar too by the way.

Yeah yeah, sure thing I'll write bigger for you, but I feel this font size is way too large.

And no, I don't take offence, and I notice you're a proud Linux user so I figured you'd understand the ideas behind open source. As I said before, I use open source so others could hopefully learn or help me out. I don't want others doing my project and if someone steals it, that just shows what kind of person they are.

[Rael0505]

I find that open source materials are best when used by people who excel at other aspects, such as art, music, or level design. People who are skilled with things other than programing will benefit with open source engines the most.

Of course, then there are always people who want to do make things without doing any actual work. You see this in all of the Sonic Worlds youtube videos where they make "Wireframe Zone act 1" and keep all the default graphics and use all the default gimmicks and call it a game. But on the other hand, projects like the old Sonic Nexus (before the retro engine) and Sonic Super Velocity used the Worlds engine very well.

I think there will always be two sides when it comes to open source work, and the worse side will be more prevalent. But that's not to say I think open source is a bad thing at all, because the group of talented people will make something good with it.

edit: About the font size, is it possible that your browser has the font set too large? This is only size 12, it shouldn't appear too large...

[Shane]

edit: About the font size, is it possible that your browser has the font set too large? This is only size 12, it shouldn't appear too large...

No, it's size 12, but I usually write with size 7 fonts. xP

In case you're wondering, no, I won't always be secret about the projects I'm working on. Usually I'll be advertising it the second I have a tech demo, this is kind of a gift back to a friend and the whole Sonic Fan-Game community and I hope to become a regular here and to be accepted with open arms.

As for your point on open source, I agree, people will always look for an alternative not to do anything. So open source may forever be frowned upon, but I guess since I make it blatant that I do everything open source, most people will know to keep an eye out when they smell something fishy.

[Spike]

I hope to become a regular here and to be accepted with open arms.

Hey, you're off to a good start. A great start compared to most of the newcomers we get here. (Wireframe Zone kids, like Rael said.)

[Rael0505]

Shane, you're exactly the kind of new member we've been wanting to attract. Don't worry about being accepted, it's clear you'll have no problem here.

[Sockman]

All of my work is so chaotic and disorganized, it'd be impossible for anyone to do anything with it if I were to make it open source.

Hell, even I can't figure out what I've done to my engine half of the time.

Pro-Tip: Always design your game engine while sober.

[Shane]

Shane, you're exactly the kind of new member we've been wanting to attract. Don't worry about being accepted, it's clear you'll have no problem here.

Well, I'm glad to hear this from the scandalous admin. Kinda strange you've been plagued with n00bs (I've been lurking and reading what they do). I was a bit nervous because I know some places like this are littered with pompous posters who reject any newcomers but so far everyone's been nice.

Pro-Tip: Always design your game engine while sober.

Will do, Sockman.

[cyborg_ar]

Nah, SFGHQ isn't that elitist, just tries to keep a sane level of idiocy

[Damizean]

Personally, I like to keep the source of my engines for public usage (mostly the source, sometimes the actual resources) under a zlib-esque license (simple and clear for nearly everything, you don't need much more in these kind of applications). Analyzing open source code was the way I got to learn & acquire the logic, and all the knowledge I hold right now.

There's also the interesting side of seeing how other people unleash their creativity throught it, by using approaches you would've never thought of. It kinda helps you to think of improvements for future codes (kinda like a feedback chain) =D

[Shane]

Personally, I like to keep the source of my engines for public usage (mostly the source, sometimes the actual resources) under a zlib-esque license (simple and clear for nearly everything, you don't need much more in these kind of applications). Analyzing open source code was the way I got to learn & acquire the logic, and all the knowledge I hold right now.

There's also the interesting side of seeing how other people unleash their creativity throught it, by using approaches you would've never thought of. It kinda helps you to think of improvements for future codes (kinda like a feedback chain) =D

Yeah, that's basically wait I think of with open source. These people mentioned problems with theivery but I don't see it as a huge concern in this community as it seems everyone tries to watch everyone's back.

[TSS_Ty]

I thought the whole point of Open Source is you can't steal it, because you're giving it away.

Anyway.

I'd open source more stuff, but my old code is so bad it hurts. there's two problems with open source. The first is that people don't want to release code that isn't "perfect" (such as me). The second is people releasing a small shitty project and wanting other people to finish it off.

I like open source, but projects need to be a certain size before they benefit from it.

[Cyber Rat]

I thought the whole point of Open Source is you can't steal it, because you're giving it away.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.

I like open source, but projects need to be a certain size before they benefit from it.

My thoughts exactly.

[DimensionWarped]

Just because it is open source doesn't mean you can't steal it. Neglecting to cite that you used the open source materials in question for instance is pretty dishonest and could be equated with stealing.

[Rawr]

I like it when a basic engine is released open source, only because I am absolute fail when it comes to even trying to comprehend any sort of programming. I am more artistically inclined in this sense, since I can produce the graphics that I want just I can't program anything to go with it. This is why I like stuff like Sonic Worlds, and probably will be asking for a lot of help (of course with credit, I hate it when people steal art so why would I steal someone's programming?). I really just want to make a game, but the problem being is that I suck at programming.

I guess I just happen to fall on the side of the people who download Worlds to make a game because I can't program worth crud. However, I don't mind learning =). That is why to the people who I've asked to help with getting Knuckles in there would be able to explain it to me so I have an idea of what was actually done so I can maybe use that little bit of knowledge somewhere else. Everyone is quite busy at this time of the year though, so I haven't quite had anyone help with that yet but I'm a patient dude =D.

I have no clue where I'm going with this. I'm really tired from working late shifts at work to accommodate the Christmas season. Extended work hours suck.

[Andrew]

I thought the whole point of Open Source is you can't steal it, because you're giving it away.

Anyway.

I'd open source more stuff, but my old code is so bad it hurts. there's two problems with open source. The first is that people don't want to release code that isn't "perfect" (such as me). The second is people releasing a small shitty project and wanting other people to finish it off.

I like open source, but projects need to be a certain size before they benefit from it.

Ty, all anyone ever wants your to release is the Groove source. Or finish it. Then release the source.

I use completed source to learn from. Coupled with documentation it's unstoppable.

[Kain]

I open source 'cause I'm not going to end up doing anything with my engines, so maybe someone else can learn something from them. Plus like Dami, I learned a lot about engine methods and such from open source engines and love seeing different methods of doing things.

[Kyran]

Kinda strange you've been plagued with n00bs (I've been lurking and reading what they do).

That's the thing that keeps me coming back. Reading about what they get up to.

Open Source is neato. The reason I don't bother to release any source is because I doubt anyone would want it. That and I care about the art assets that would have to be released with the code.