A fun little analysis game of sorts...

[DimensionWarped]

First, this topic is inspired by the Sonic 3 Remix project and my Wii.

3D Sonic games aren't really Sonic games. I never really realized just how much so this was true until... I repurchased Sonic 1 for the first time since I got it as a present for SEGA Genesis when I was 5 or 6.

Here is the premise. Name one difference between Genesis Sonic and 3D Sonic games that changes the game at a fundamental level. Post pictures to illustrate the point if you can.

1. No ducking.

Nabbed it from some site, hence the text.

Sonic jumps from the peak and spins into a ball on the way down.

How important was ducking in 2D Sonic? Well...

First, in the old games, ducking was the first instinctual response to danger. During the course of a normal level in Sonic 1 (exempting Labyrinth Zone and Marble Zone for obvious reasons), you'll spend roughly 35 - 60% of your total moving time rolled up in a ball, and over half of that, you'll be rolling in a ball on the ground or at least a wall.

Rolling into a ball on an incline is the best way to pick up speed.

Notably, your speed is very limited while running. This becomes most apparent in Sonic 2 on Chemical Plant when going down the long steep inclines. So naturally, you increase your acceleration due to gravity by tucking in like a sky diver or luge racer.

Now, since Sonic Adventure, this hasn't been the case. Running is as fast as running gets... aside from that freaky spindash glitch in SA1 anyway. The total amount of time spent in the ball changes to strictly being while jumping and immediately after spindashing, so overall I'd say you are in ball form less than 10% of the time.

Of course, another important thing about rolling... was that you could go into a roll while entering a vertical bank that is sloping back towards horizontal.

Sonic jumps into a half pipe, rolling into a ball on the way down.

And particularly on stages like Casino Night and Spring Yard, you could use this to build up energy for a hefty ascent.

And so basically, with the loss of rolling, you lose an entire base element of the Sonic gameplay.

And if you've noticed, this change greatly carries over into recent 2D titles in spite of rolling being in them. Running is actually faster than rolling and these level elements like half pipes and things have pretty much ceased to exist.

Alright, now someone else show a difference.

[1LT Worm]

2. You call fall into an abyss EVERYWHERE.

First, we'll take a look at some levels from Sonic Adventure 2 (because I've played that game more).

One little slip, and it's all over. Especially if your homing attack decides to screw up.

But, if you look at the Genesis games, rarely do you ever find an abysses. If you do, you have to work hard to get it. There's also one or two areas (that I can think of) in Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone where there are a row of spikes that automatically kills you.

Like this:

And there's that one pit in the Mystic Cave Zone of Sonic 2 and which you get trapped, you die. Point is, your principal foe in the Old School games was Dr. Robotnik, not the Forces of Gravity.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I love you Worm. I've been screaming that for years.

How about the fact that all the playable characters essentially played the same? I mean, Sonic was the basic character, Tails could swim and fly, and Knuckles could glide and climb. But they were all, essentially, the same in a sense that you ran and jumped and rolled.

Then, Sonic stayed the same (sorta) and Tails became some dude stuck in a Robot (WTF?) and Knuckles hunted emeralds, and then you had a bunch of other guys tacked on, because we all know the REAL reason you play a Sonic game is to skip all of that speed crap and get to the part where you go FISHING.

Sonic Heroes tried to remedy this, but the game went from going really fast in speed formation, to coming to a halt because your power guy needs to kill some people, or you need to fly into a little ring or over some high ledge or something.

Now, I haven't played the new Sonic, but I hear Shadow is all about the vehicles and crap, and I know Silver does very little running. When did a Sonic game start being about getting into Hummers and shooting stuff, or...levitating crap?

[DimensionWarped]

Actually, from what I've noticed, your principle foe in the oldschool was getting crushed in between two objects or, in Sonic 1, getting the snot beat out of you by the spike glitch.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Actually, from what I've noticed, your principle foe in the oldschool was getting crushed in between two objects or, in Sonic 1, getting the snot beat out of you by the spike glitch.

I found that I died a lot from being crushed, yes, but also from enemies and spikes (or at least, they hit me a lot more than I got crushed, or, in the new games, than I fell into an endless abyss)

[DimensionWarped]

I find Eggman's robots to be far more menacing in the new games. The reason for that being of course that they knock you into the endless abyss.

[Eraysor]

At least Eggman created robots and traps. The abyss is some sort of magical occurence.

Actually, this is just a little thing, but how often is there a sequence like Marble Zone's blocks-pushed-on-lava riding sections?

[DimensionWarped]

Reason Number 4:

Eggman is slightly evil and doesn't care about the environment. So why has he started recycling!?

Sonic 2 had... a lot of different enemy designs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emerald Hill Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzzer
Coconuts
Masher
--------------------------
Chemical Plant Enemies
--------------------------
Grabber
Spiny
------------------------
Aquatic Ruin Enemies
------------------------

Whisp: These are flies that like to fly around and charge at you in Aquatic
Ruin. They often come in groups of three, and they are quite annoying most of
the time. Hit one of these anywhere to get rid of them.

Chop Chop: These are blue fish in the water that like to bite you in Aquatic
Ruin. They don't directly charge at you, they just swim in a straight line. Hit
them anywhere to get rid of them.

Grounder: These enemies are quite annoying in Aquatic Ruin. If you hit a
spring, it may pop out of the wall and stop you. Otherwise, jump and hit it
anywhere to get rid of it if it annoys you.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casino Night Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crawl: The only enemy you will find in Casino Night, and you don't see them
that often. They don't attack you that much and they have a spring on one of
their sides. To get rid of these, spin dash against them on their "springless"
side.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hill Top Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rexon: These enemies come out of the lava in Hill Top. They have a long neck
and a shell in the lava. It's safe to hop on their shell and it shoots out
bullets at you. To get rid of it, jump on its head.

Spiker: This is a small enemy with a spike on its head in Hill Top. Get close
to it and it will release its spike. Then hit it on the head to get rid of it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mystic Cave Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flasher: One of the most annoying enemies in the game and it appears in Mystic
Cave. When you get close to it, it will flash yellow and glow. When it stops
glowing, hit it anywhere to get rid of it. Really annoying if you spin dash or
jump onto one when it's glowing.

Crawlton: These enemies aren't too annoying in the Mystic Cave. It'll pop out
of the wall as a blue, long worm. Hit it on its head to get rid of it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oil Ocean Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Octus: This pink octopus likes to jump up at you and spit a bullet at you in
Oil Ocean. They aren't too annoying and you can jump on them anywhere to get
rid of them.

Aquis: This is a flying seahorse in Oil Ocean that shoots bullets at you, and
almost like the Octus. Just jump and hit it anywhere to get rid of it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metropolis Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Asteron: A really annoying enemy in Metropolis. These are like starfish and
they appear around the screws with nuts on them when you are going up or down.
They like to explode and send their spikes all over the place, so try to stop
running on the nut when it explodes to dodge the spikes.

Slicer: This is probably the most annoying enemy in the whole game, and it
appears in Metropolis. These are like grasshoppers. When you finally get to a
higher platform by a spring or something, they will shoot their claws at you
and they will most likely hit you, sending you into a gap or backwards. Once
the claws are gone, hit them anywhere to get rid of them.

Shellcraker: This enemy is almost annoying as the slicer. It is a red grab with
only one huge claw, and it will shoot it at you, and it's hard to dodge,
especially if you get onto a higher platform using a spring or something else.
Hit it on the head to get rid of it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sky Chase Enemies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turtloids: This is a smaller turtle on a bigger turtle in Sky Chase. These are
pretty easy to get rid of, just jump on the little turtle. He attacks by
pulling a handle and a bullet comes out of the bigger turtle's mouth. Should be
easy to avoid.

Nebula: These kind of look like Lego toys in Sky Chase. They have a yellow
propeller on their head, and they like to drop mines from the bottom of them.
Hit them anywhere to get rid of them.

Balkiry: These are like red bird jets in Sky Chase. They don't attack you
directly, they just charge at you quickly from the other side of the screen.
Hit them anywhere to get rid of them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing Fortress
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clucker: These are chickens in the Wing Fortress. They shoot bullets at you and
they are easy to dodge. Jump on their head to get rid of them, and they are
pretty easy to get rid of.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

*ripped from some faq*

Now... Sonic Adventure 2 didn't

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Enemies
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

GUN ROBOTS: (these contain chaos drives)

Hunter - the most common robot in the game.  They basicly just swoop 
down and then shoot stuff at you. 100pts.

Shield Hunter - this variety of hunter can only be attacked when their 
sheild is down, specificaly when they are shooting.  Sonic and Shadow 
can somersault to destroy them.  100pts.

Beetle - this hovering bot is also a very common enemy.  Most are 
helpless, and are used just as homing attack targets to get to farther 
areas.  However, some are armed with guns or bombs, and some have 
electric sheilds that suddenly pop up while homing in at them.  100pts.

Spring Beetle - a rarer variety of beetle, this one doesn't attack, it 
just sits there to be bounced off of. 100pts.

Wing Beetle - a tougher variety of beetle with glowing red lights, and 
the ability to fly around and shoot.  They are difficult to hit, as 
they move very quickly.  500pts.

Gold Beetle - one of these is hidden in each stage.  It will quickly 
appear, then dissapear. Destroying it will help you earn an A rank in 
score based missions.  1000pts.

Hawk - an aireal bot with huge jet engines.  They like to attack by 
surprise with a barrage of firepower. 200pts.

Sky Hawk - the winged hawk that quickly flies by and shoots at you.  
Like the Wing Beetle, hitting this may be a little difficult. 500pts.

Rhino - a short to the ground tank bot that will charge at you.  
100pts.

Spiked Rhino - due to obvious reasons, this rhino should only be 
attacked from the bottom.  100pts.

Metal Rhino - this large metal box bot is virtually indestructable - 
none of your attacks will hurt it.  Only bomb items can destroy it.  
100pts.

Rhino Cannon - this rhino doesn't charge like the others, instead, it 
shoots bombs.  Try picking up the bomb, and throwing it back at him. 
100pts.

Hornet - a robot carrying a large load of bombs.  They will fire the 
bombs at you, and they will home straight at you.  After frining, they 
pretty much just float around and do nothing.  Hornets with 3 bombs are 
worth 100pts, hornets with 6 bombs are worth 200 pts, and hornets with 
9 bombs are worth 300pts.  But that's not all - with Tails and Eggman, 
you can lock onto each individual bomb for a ridiculous amount of bonus 
points.

Pheonix - a rarer variety of hornet, this type is colored red.  They 
seem to fire quicker. 100pts.

Laser Hornet - this hornet fires a load of lasers rather than bombs.  
It can also attack more than once.  100pts.

Eagle Fighter - these are the huge jets that zoom across the sky and 
drop bombs.  You can hear them coming, so stay clear.  It is possible 
to destroy them, but it is quite difficult. 500pts.

Artificial Chaos - described by Omochao as "robots that look like 
research projects," this blue blob has offically been proven as the 
most annoying enemy in the entire game.  Not only do they fire lasers, 
they also are able to extend their blob portion of their bodies into 
deadly tenticles, reaching great distances in many directions.  Also, 
in various shooter stages, they hide their head in their indestructable 
blob body, and only come out for a split second to attack.  The best 
strategy for defeating this "P1 Type" is to constantly fire at it until 
it lifts its head.  Attacking the head is the only way to put the 
Artificial Chaos out of their misery.  200pts.

Artificial Chaos Guard Type - only seeming to appear in Sonic's stages, 
this blob will break into several explosive cells as soon as it sees 
him.  In order to destroy the army of cells, you must destroy the 
floating head. Homing attack is useless against it, because you will 
aim for the cells, and perhaps have them explode in your face.  To 
defeat it, use the bounce attack to bounce through the cells, then 
bounce on the head to destroy it.  You could also use the spindash to 
bust through the cells to earn lots of points, however there is the 
risk of being blown up by them.  Cells are 10pts each, the head is 
200pts.

Gyro - These green spinning things float around, doing absolutely 
nothing. Gold Gyros can be locked onto by Eggman twice. 20pts.

Energy Control Cannon - Found in Eternal Engine and Cannon's Core, the 
cannons themselves cannot be destroyed, however, its projectiles can 
be. 

EGGMAN'S ROBOTS: (these contain small animals)

Gola - a classic enemy that dates way back to Sonic 2, it is the red 
ball surrounded by flames.  Attack in the middle red ball to destroy 
it. 100pts.

Unidus - the spike ball version of Gola, as seen in Sonic 3.  The 
center ball is still the place to attack, however, the spikeballs 
surround Unidus in all directions, so be carefull.  100pts.

Kiki - the monkey also known as Coconuts returns, and as always, he 
throws bombs.  Like the Rhino Cannon, his bombs can be picked up and 
thrown back at him or at cages.  You don't have to worry about the bomb 
exploding while holding it. 100pts.

E-1000 - this Eggrobo-like robot is quite tough.  He fires at you quite 
quickly, in all directions.  200pts.

Egg Beetle - this indestructable annoyance patrols the Egg Quarters in 
search of intruders to blast.  When the screen in glowing green, that 
means he is nearby.  When the screen turns red, and you hear beeping, 
that means he has sighted you, and is about to blast you.  His laser 
blasts are impossable to avoid, however, you can get out of his sight 
by hiding in the shadows.

Buzz Bomber - one of the first Sonic enemies ever, these bees fly 
around and shoot projectiles at you once you are in sight. 100pts.

Pihrana - These fish jump out of the water in a poor attempt to bite 
you. But when they do, it hurts. 100pts.

GHOSTS: (these contain nothing)

Ghost:  what a worthless, annoying thing.  It just simply grabs you or 
jumps out at you, thus wasting your time. 0pts.

Attack Boo:  this kind can hurt you, at least... simply don't let it 
touch you, and attack it as normal. 100pts.

Boom Boo:  this is a HUGE ghost with a stitched mouth.  Each time you 
attack it, it will shrink smaller.  It will take 3 hits to shrink into 
nothing, and then you will be rewarded 300pts.

Also ripped from some FAQ

Now, obviously that list has a damned lot of repeats to make it look bigger. Regardless, there are basically 5 different enemies that are really an issue and then about 3 ghosts and some of Eggmans robots that show up in one level that are just direct ripoffs of 2D equivalents.

Thats another thing that has to be said... 2D Sonic never repeated the same crap with the exemption of Sonic 2 having some enemies from the early stages of Sonic 1. And Orbinauts. Then there is Sonic 3... Whoa.

Now... there is also a much meaner look at this... Sonic Heroes:

Egg Pawn - comes in several varieties, all of which are retarded.

Generic ass floating thing - They call it an enemy.  I call it a platform to use homing attack on.

Another generic ass floating thingy... only this time with tentacles and a tractor beam.

Turtle - the mere fact that its a turtle should be reason enough for it not to be in the game.

Extremely resilient hammer robot - the penultimate example of bad enemy design, not because it was uncool, but because it took a million years to fight.

transsexual Wizard from Transylvania.  Some of Brad, some of Janet, all annoying.

and...

THE E-2000!  SO THEY ARE FINALLY IN PRODUCTION!  I WILL DESTROY THEM!  Another enemy strictly designed to waste time.

And this time, I wrote it.

More importantly though... what does this say about the game? Its certainly cheap when you have less enemy designs than you have stages. Its sorta like playing Wolfenstein 3D with the 3 different colored SS guard... then you have the single boss with the machine gun, but aside from that, nothing is very different. Except the Hitler ghosts... can't forget the hitler ghosts. Damn I hated that game.

Anyway, this naturally carried over into Sonic Rush where...

They have Egg pawns, the annoying hammer bot, a floating variant that kinda acts like the hammer bot, and the wizards... thats pretty much it.

Anyway, its cheap, its not fun, and most importantly, it throws off another facet of the games that I will discuss given nobody else picks it up.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Going back to the abyss and level design, I'd like to point out that a bunch of trees surrounded by nothing but floating platforms is NOT a jungle, Sega. Or a forest. Or any of the other environments. I remember when the jungle in the first level of Sonic 3 & Knuckles was a jungle. It had things like, waterfalls, and uh...ground...

Even the 2D Sonic games are following suit; just long, thin platforms floating in midair with some stuff in the background.

Oh, and I remember when you ran through a loop, you still had control of Sonic, whereas in the 3D Sonic games, you hit the bottom of the loop, and the game runs you through the rest of the loop and you wait till the end of it to start playing again. Or maybe you did have control, and loops just aren't cool anymore. I dunno. I just doesn't feel like I'M going through the loop, and that I'm kicked out of the steering wheel for a second.

[Aerosol]

spindash. not nearly as important anymore.

springs. not nearly as fun anymore.

Rings. not nearly as important anymore.

[VectorSatyr]

Oh, and I remember when you ran through a loop, you still had control of Sonic, whereas in the 3D Sonic games, you hit the bottom of the loop, and the game runs you through the rest of the loop and you wait till the end of it to start playing again. Or maybe you did have control, and loops just aren't cool anymore. I dunno. I just doesn't feel like I'M going through the loop, and that I'm kicked out of the steering wheel for a second.

There's one reason why the "pitfall death" issue is so stupid. The most obvious reason that loops work this way now is because Sonic Team KNEW you could fall to your death if you made even the slightest error. Watch - just play Sonic Adventure 2 again and jump while going through... any loop.

Of course, this could be remedied by making the loops SMALLER, and not such a sightseeing affair...

[Aaron C-T]

In Sonic Adventure you didn't fall to your death as much, or at least not as much as in SA2 and onward where levels became entirely "grind a thin azz pole and switch between like 20 or else you die." As said before, and I believe something DW & I disagreed on, was that we need more underwater sections where available. If I fall into the water I shouldn't just die. There should be some sort of floor there where I can try and work my way back to the top, just like in the old games. Characters in the old game played similarly- yet were different, and I think it's time that was brought back. Tails and Shadow should be only a tad slower than Sonic, with Knuckles and Amy behind them. We do need more segments where Sonic must roll into a ball, possibly something that would work well with an X-treme type level design where certain segments are sidescrolling- or perhaps simply level design that isn't so flat. Mainly though, I'd like to see the underwater segments they're something that has been in almost every Sonic game until he hit 3D and they were always some of the more challenging levels. Another thing is we need more epic bosses and levels. Like in Marble Garden in Sonic 3 where the level is crumbling around Sonic, and Tails grabs him and aids in the following boss battle. My cent.

Eraysor: There are no sections like that because people complain about them. I specifically remember someone hear saying something like "I don't want to have to wait for a platform to come to me, Sonic games are about speed."

[DimensionWarped]

I had written well beyond the character limit in discussion of this, but then my computer went and had a seizure and I lost it all.

Anyway, I agree that water is good, but I do say that Labyrinth Zone is one of the most hated Sonic levels.

I don't even feel like typing all the rest of that stuff out again, so bleh. It was longer than my Composition end of term paper.

[VectorSatyr]

Not to mentioned, you double posted.

I think the absolute end to these issues would be sidescrolling 3D, like they did with Kirby. I'm still dumbfounded they haven't even CONSIDERED it, given all the complaints about Sonic Speed Vs. 3D space (can't fall to your death at 1MPH). What I would absolutely <3 the most is 2.5D. No, not the 2.5D from Sonic Rush - I mean "Sonic 2D, levels 3D".

[DimensionWarped]

Making a Kirby 64 style engine won't necessarily fix anything thats wrong though. Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush still lack many fundamental aspects of the real Sonic games.

[Aaron C-T]

DW: While Labyrinth Zone can be an overly difficult zone at some times, Aquatic Ruins, parts of Angel Island, and Hydrocity are awesome. Really without water levels Tails and Knuckles (post-SA) lose another thing that makes them slightly different: the ability to swim. And there's nothing quite like playing as Tails in Hydrocity. It's just damned fun (and the music rawks damned hard).

Aero: As DW said, 2.5D wouldnt do anything about level design. They could very well still have falls-to-death. In my opinion, this is much more annoying in a 2D game where you can only see up to the edge of the screen. The player is penalized for not knowing what comes next. At least in 3D games you can see "oh, I'd better not run forward there's nothing but open space." One of the things I hate about the new 2D games, even Rush (which I like a bit better than the Advance series, yet still sucks in comparison), is that I'll be running along all fine and dandy and then the oh-so-overused gravity will kick in when I least expect it. Thus, I'm thrown upward, and- hey would you look at that- I can either slam into the spikes and lose craploads of rings and still probably die or I can try and make it over the hugely random gap- oh look too late, I'm dead. Now see.. a Klonoa-styled look for a remake would be awesome because it'd have the same level design only with awesome crap like reflections of the characters as they run over water in places like Hydrocity. That's just me though.

I highly doubt we'll see any sort of change in level design unless there's a significant drop in our purchasing of the games. IMO, I think it'd be best to contact various Sega/Sonic Team/Sammy people and email them the names of the community-as-a-whole's favorite levels and why (both 2D and 3D). Tell them flat-out "we want to see this type of leel design." If the next game is still the same BS, then we just arrange a boycott. I've seen tons of comments here, on Youtube, IGN, etc that suggest that we could easily get enough people to not buy the game. However, last time I suggested something like this it was quickly dismissed. I'm not satisfied with the level design at the moment, but I'm still going to buy next as I feel there's no reason in not playing a Sonic game (and I can live with SA/SA2 quality games) if this is how they'll always be. It's not as if my not buying it alone would change anything. My 2 stupid cents.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Basically, Klonoa stages, Sonic-style.

[Aerosol]

goddamn. 2.5d is NOT the goddamn answer. god that's so freaking annoying.

If anything it'd be WORSE.

ALSO. About uncontrolled loops. I'm just gonna say F-Zero. It can be done, okay?

ALSO! As far as I'm concerned, there can only be two kinds of 3D sonic games. Sonic games that correctly and fluently capture the sense off pure speed (SA2 came closest to this) or Sonic games that try to add a third dimension to the genesis sonic games (SA1 came closest). Sonic Team needs to firmly decide what the **** they want to do and actually THINK about it.

[VectorSatyr]

God, if it's that bad of an idea, forget I said anything. T_T.

[tentril]

Woah Aerosol, you're right. Sega made F-Zero and loops worked in that. Why can't they do it in Sonic?

[Aerosol]

Because Sonic Team didn't make F-Zero.

[tentril]

I know, but Sonic Team is part of SEGA. It shoudn't be too hard for them to ask for help from the F-Zero team.

[Aerosol]

you'd think so. I just think Sonic Team are lazy when it comes to their namesake. I mean, there's no other explanation for it.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I still say a 3D side scroller=win. If utilized right (like Namco did in Klonoa 2) then we'd have a great Sonic game on our hands.

[Aaron C-T]

You know they won't do it right though, which is why I say remake. If you somehow make level design worse for a game that's still side scrolling only with 3D gfx (and you have the level designs right in front of you) than you just need to be shot. There's practically no way they can screw that up. Even if they used the Rush engine, it wouldn't break the Sonic 3 level design. There'd be no fall-to-your-death and the badniks would be the same as in Sonic 3. Just with 3D graphics and a Klonoa-styled camera. No way to go wrong unless they truly are idiots. Just Klonoa-style alone wouldn't fix anything. Then it'd just be Advanced with fully-3D gfx.

Aerosol: I have to disagree on that one buddy. Levels like Windy Valley in SA had parts that were nothing but running and they were decent. There has to be a way to balance parts like that out with parts like SA2. To say that Sonic Team needs to pick one or the other kills the whole thing.