More Collaboration?

[OverbounD]

It seems like everyone these days has really great project with big 360 degree engines and new interesting ideas problem is none of them get finished probably because there just too much for one person.

So my question is how come more of you guys don't collaborate? It seems like everyone here gets along pretty well and it only seems logical since we are all working towards the same goal (making a great fan game) that a few of us get to gather to make a game. I'm not talking about a community game (I think there was a topic on that recently) I know my preferred team size it 2 me and someone else. It just a few small teams would have a better chance and completing a game I think. Or maybe not anyone have any thought or insight on this?

[Rael0505]

I prefer to do things myself than work with other people, though I am helping out with projects. Mainly ET:CF.

For my own project, I want to design the levels. I want to make the backgrounds and music. Why? Because I enjoy it. Why should I let other people do it when I can do it and call it my own?

[DimensionWarped]

Collaboration is overrated. I don't think I've ever seen a community project anywhere which actually was finished...

[ila]

No DW, but at you're rate you could use some.

Anyway not that I got the obligatory DW progress push post out of the way its time to talk.

Yes you have big ideas Overbound, just like everyone else who has a post count under 10. Collabs have been tried, but sometimes they just don't work out. And I'm going to be honest, we're not that connected. Yes our posts tolerate eachother, but no, we're not necessarily friends here. We talk. We discuss, and Rael tells us how to make things better, but I don't think that the capability exists for teams to work. At least teams that are formed here. The team needs to be formed outside of the forums. With others who you communnicate with outside the forums, and here as well. With others that you can feel connected to. (Pardon me, been watching alot of cheesy stuff lately)

You have good intentions, and thank you for brining this up. I think the collab theory works, but you have to work harder than just getting together and doing something.

Story time!

Whenever I got involved with a team (Yes, the mean nasty old ilascott was actually part of one once) it was because I chose to be on the team. And not because somebody posted about one, but because I was just chatting on AIM and suddenly said person mentioned they needed some help, and I knew how to make said help, and thus helped. Thats how teams are formed. Not by "hiring people" but by just finding the right opportunities. Or something.

BTW I'm going to shift this topic to debate because I think this might bring up some interesting discussion.

err nevermind that. Lets just leave it where it was.

[DimensionWarped]

I'll see your DW progress push and raise you the sorry lack of a computer petty excuse.

on topic:

Anyway, no one here really works in big teams... but most fangames that are actually in progress have at least a couple team members. I've got a crew of about 3 regulars including myself who work on DW, though the other two guys tend to just slack off or complain about how horrible QuArK is for level development.

And so I signed on for the Constructor beta... but alas, I have no fax machine with which to mail my NDA.

Anyway, my lack of getting anything done this Summer isn't so bad, because I've learned enough about programming in C++ and any other object oriented language over the past year to know that I knew comparatively nothing about programming a year and a half ago.

[MystHedgehog]

I absolutely agree with ila. People come to the boards to get some advice on some specific issues or to get feedback from the community, but outside these "walls" it's much like real life, you get involved in things without having to look for them. When I was more involved in fangaming, I'd help up people not because they asked me, but because we'd be talking about their stuff on aim and i'd offer to code this thing that he couldn't, or i'd say "hey, I touched up this graphic you sent me, what do you think". Of course, if someone I knew asked me for help, I'd help them, I was just backing up ila's point.

Then of course, there's the other side of the coin, which I think I'm in a good position to talk about, because of oh, a little something called Sonic Forever...

The thing with that is that yes, me and Euan had some good ideas, and we both knew our stuff. Thing is, most of our skills collided instead of forming this whole (we were good at the same things, so-so at the same things) which ended up with having us both working on the same things, at the same time, not a good working model. Furthermore, we did things at different paces, and we didn't really coordinate our efforts. At the beginning we both had roughly the same vision for the game, but as time progressed we started drifting apart and our visions started to be incompatible. All this was, obviously, let to us eventually canning the project and Euan restarting Sonic XG (which is probably going to turn better than SF ever could anyway, heh).

So if you really want to working in a game with other people, remember to get people whose skills don't collide, and organize them, don't just let everyone do whatever they want, define where you are, where you want to get to, and what you need to do to get there. If you just need this specific thing done and you don't have the skills to do it just ask on the forums, or ask a friend. There's always someone out there willing to help you. Don't just get random people's aim screennames and start asking them for help, though. That's really annoying.

[Sir Euan]

Then of course, there's the other side of the coin, which I think I'm in a good position to talk about, because of oh, a little something called Sonic Forever...

The thing with that is that yes, me and Euan had some good ideas, and we both knew our stuff. Thing is, most of our skills collided instead of forming this whole (we were good at the same things, so-so at the same things) which ended up with having us both working on the same things, at the same time, not a good working model. Furthermore, we did things at different paces, and we didn't really coordinate our efforts. At the beginning we both had roughly the same vision for the game, but as time progressed we started drifting apart and our visions started to be incompatible. All this was, obviously, let to us eventually canning the project and Euan restarting Sonic XG (which is probably going to turn better than SF ever could anyway, heh).

I still love you Myst, from the bottom of my heart!

But seriously though Myst is right, if you gotta work with someone make sure you're fangaming powers complement each. And 2 is a decent number, more than that can get messy so don't try it unless your an organisation god/freak.

[OverbounD]

Come on guys give me a little credit I've been around for a little while just went dead for a few months. Do I really sound like that much of a noob?

[Rael0505]

Overbound just joined the new message board, but I remember him from the proboards. He's not a newbie.

[MystHedgehog]

Nobody was calling you a "noob" (actually using that term is frowned upon, or at least us last time I checked), we were just posting our opinions, which is exactly what you asked for, right? =P

In fact, it only makes sense to think that a bunch of people would be able to make a better fangame than a single person. It just happens to be nearly impossible (at least at our level) to coordinate people like that, especially online, especially if some people live in different time zones, and have their own agendas besides working on a fangame. Like it was said, it's not like it can't be done, but good luck making it work. That's why people tend to work alone, or at most, work as two-man team that won't get in each other's way.

@Euan: Oh, you.

[Nitemare]

I would like to add to what Euan said, I've attempted projects before with groups of people (SG & Ristar, holy ____ we need to pick up that Framed Legacy thing ;P) and they've always resulted in failure, yet, with XG it has been very different. Me and Euan had been mates for a good while, and not just 'internet' mates, although we've never met, we have always discussed sexy woman problems and such, we both have similar tastes in music, a similar sense of humour and similar social lives, pretty much how one can interact with a real life friend. This being what keeps XG going so well, we never really argue about anything, and can easily decide something to be done/changed, knowing the other will agree. And also we have completely opposite skills, although I can sprite alright if need be, it's just no way near on the level Euan does, and the same with programming, just vice versa.

I don't even know what the point of explaining that was, but it might be useful to those thinking of making a team. You can't just 'form' a team upon command, they form themselves, otherwise you just have a big useless mess.

[Mark the Echidna]

If I got him right, he's not talking about having big teams. But about the teams sharing a little more their projects with each other. And I agree.

I think 2-3 people is already a good number for a team... Specially if youren't doing everything from scratch (And by everything, i really meant everything).

[Asuma]

Nitemare is correct. To get a team together, you and your teammates needs to be one.

[BlazeHedgehog]

Been thinkin' of hiring an assistant level designer to help me with TFH one day. Maybe if I ever get Shadow of Chaos done.

.... :x

[Kain]

I can't trust myself to work, so I can't expect someone else to trust me. Simple as that for me.

[OverbounD]

So basicly it sounds like all you have all tried it before and it doesn't work out unless you find your soul mate and make a game with them lol. That's really too bad as the old saying goes two heads are better then one. Hey I found someone to make music for me though that's a start

[ila]

...soul mate? You have a sick sense of humor.

[MidimanNull]

So basicly it sounds like all you have all tried it before and it doesn't work out unless you find your soul mate and make a game with them lol.

Hmm, you just gave me a great idea.

[MystHedgehog]

So basicly it sounds like all you have all tried it before and it doesn't work out unless you find your soul mate and make a game with them lol. That's really too bad as the old saying goes two heads are better then one. Hey I found someone to make music for me though that's a start

Yeah, soul mate's a bit too much, regular mate will do. Glad you got someone to make music, more fangames could use original music, instead of "Oh, it's the Palmtree Panic music. Again. Oh, it's that invencibility song. Hooray." But I'm straying from the topic, sorry =P.

[Sir Euan]

Yeah, soul mate's a bit too much

Me and Nitemare are totally soulmates, our kids would look so good.

[MystHedgehog]

Me and Nitemare are totally soulmates, our kids would look so good.

You mean like

?

[Aaron C-T]

"I can't trust myself to work, so I can't expect someone else to trust me. Simple as that for me."

I pretty much have that problem, but for different reasons. My thing is, I can't really get things to work in TGF/MMF. To top that off I'm not a spriter. So I can really only manage to do a few things, come up with ideas, and write crazy arse stories. Sadly, none of it is really enough to make a game.

Now if 2 guys were to come up to me and say they wanted to make an original Sonic fangame that played totally different, then maybe I'd hop on board as a writer, or to simply toss ideas around. Heck, I'd love that. If I hadn't quit fangaming I'd probably be making a fangame right now, but it wouldn't get anywhere. I mean.. the story/idea in my head right now is simply a restart (or whatever it's called when they wipe the slate clean) in which everything from how Sonic got his speed, why Robotnik is evil, how Sonic/Tails met, and random other shix is explained (using various sources such as comics, the game manuals, etc). I love the idea. But I can't do crap about it, and to organize some kind of team would be stupid because I'd realize I can't do anything actually useful. So.. yea.

[OverbounD]

Mainly my problem is it just takes forever to make levels and I'm barley mediocre and making game graphics.

Ug... guess I should have mentioned the soul mate thing...

[Rael0505]

Just recolor crap and mix and match. It works wonderfully.

[Guest Shadix]

I'll see your DW progress push and raise you the sorry lack of a computer petty excuse.

on topic:

Anyway, no one here really works in big teams... but most fangames that are actually in progress have at least a couple team members. I've got a crew of about 3 regulars including myself who work on DW, though the other two guys tend to just slack off or complain about how horrible QuArK is for level development.

And so I signed on for the Constructor beta... but alas, I have no fax machine with which to mail my NDA.

Anyway, my lack of getting anything done this Summer isn't so bad, because I've learned enough about programming in C++ and any other object oriented language over the past year to know that I knew comparatively nothing about programming a year and a half ago.

...I hate you. >_> (Although you do have a point, if I would just learn how to model my usefulness would exponentially increase. I also didn't realize that #2 bitched about QuArK, I thought it was just you trying to get him to actually do something.)

I have accomplished more in the last month than I have ever done in my life. (Save for my music stuffs...)