Freedom Planet (v. 1.4)

[TailsSena]

Now that you mention it, I do see similarities with Megaman X, Zero, and ZX...

The reason it's compared to sonic though is that Sonic is the only notable series with competent slope/angle detection.

[Strife]

Demo's great. Haven't figured out how to play as Carol yet, though; I guess I have to unlock her, but I haven't really figured out how, yet. I'd guessed it was the panels (which I still haven't gotten all of), but somebody on the last page suggested it was a time attack thing? (And apparently just over 6 minutes doesn't cut it. Bleh.)

Do you have the latest version of the game? If so, then the time to unlock Carol is 7 minutes. There's also a cheat code on our Facebook page, but you'll have to do some digging to find it:

http://www.facebook.com/freedomplanetgame

[Shadow Hog]

Do you have the latest version of the game? If so, then the time to unlock Carol is 7 minutes.

No, this was 1.0. And I'm definitely under 7, so I guess I'll just upgrade and reap my reward, assuming the save format is consistent.

Out of curiosity, were you planning any other playable characters? I recall you introduced Carol and Milla at the same time... It's okay if you can't say.

[Strife]

No, this was 1.0. And I'm definitely under 7, so I guess I'll just upgrade and reap my reward, assuming the save format is consistent.

Out of curiosity, were you planning any other playable characters? I recall you introduced Carol and Milla at the same time... It's okay if you can't say.

Ah, yeah. Loading your saved game in 1.1 should work, I'd imagine.

As for adding new characters... I'm not certain at this point. It depends on how much steam I pick up during development and if I have the time to spare.

[Shadow Hog]

I'd definitely focus on stages first, in that case. Better to have a solid game with 1-2 characters than a mediocre game with 3+; I think Sonic Team illustrated that for us quite clearly during 1999-2008.

Although, just played as Carol (the save transplant worked like a charm), and man, she is quite fun to play as. I love wall-jumping in games; so unrealistic, yet so cool. Mega Man X, Batman, Ninja Gaiden; love it all, and Carol here's no exception. I would like it if there were more cool goodies hidden up above for obsessive explorers like myself who climb tall walls for no good reason, though, or more overhangs/blockades to indicate that, no, there really isn't anything up there if you climb this wall, stop trying. I understand the stage was more designed for Lilac, of course, and that's fine, as per the first paragraph of this post, but if you ever get time...

[Hyper Emerson]

Funfacts:

-Card 1 comes after Card 2. That's confusing, man!

-If the miniboss fight results in a double KO, the checkpoint gets triggered anyway.

[Serephim]

I would like to see somebody review it without comparing it to sonic, which apparently is the only platformer staring an animal ever. Of course I'm totally guilty of that comparison too.

To be completely fair, there really isnt any other platformer other than Sonic that uses a movement setup like this. There aren't many ways to escape the game being compared to Sonic, especially with things like loops and runnable walls still being part of the game.

Just something he's gonna have to work with i guess.

[Violet CLM]

To be completely fair, there really isnt any other platformer other than Sonic that uses a movement setup like this.

You

about

?

[Strife]

->

The only thing I can come up with as a suitable replacement for the rolling is this spinning maneuver similar the one Espio or Blaze uses. Even then, she would still need to curl into a ball in the split second before using a Comet Boost, since it would look weird otherwise. Also, I'm not sure if I can do the same thing with Carol, since her pouncing move transitions nicely into a roll.

One of my friends brought up the suggestion of replacing the roll with a baseball slide - which could work decently on normal surfaces, but it would look strange with gimmicks that force the player into ball mode, such as the S tunnel or a spinning cup gimmick that's present in Relic Maze Act 2:

If I'm going to rid the game of "ball mode" completely, then I will unfortunately need to scrap several of the gimmicks I've made so far that specifically utilize it. No idea what to do with the S tunnel or its switch-based cousin in Relic Maze Act 1, but I could change the spinny cup gimmick from a cup into a handlebar the player grabs onto as it descends.

On the other hand, I could just limit "ball mode" to very specific circumstances which include the use of these gimmicks. Maybe the elimination of the Spin Attack would be enough to differentiate it from Sonic?

[Instrutilus]

One of my friends brought up the suggestion of replacing the roll with a baseball slide - which could work decently on normal surfaces, but it would look strange with gimmicks that force the player into ball mode, such as the S tunnel or a spinning cup gimmick that's present in Relic Maze Act 2:

Why not simply make specific sprites for the gimmicks, like Lilac grabbing hold of the cage and using it to launch herself into a run?

Personally, I prefer the idea of her going into a baseball slide. I also think you should include a crawl option, like Solid Snake, to help further differentiate the characters.

[FanGameRevolver]

I have a feeling that sliding around a loop is going to look really weird...

[Apricity]

Baseball slide on lands and basic terrain and areas where she needs to go into a ball, she goes into a ball. I see no problem why that couldn't just work.

[Serephim]

I dont think you should use a sliding animation. Mostly because it makes no sense, but also because Modern Sonic games have started using it, and it looks retarded because HE should be rolling in those situations.

Just an idea:

I dont know if this would change her character any, but i think a sort of 'runaway tackle' could work pretty well. Just because she's gaining speed doesn't mean she has to stop using her legs to do it. Similar to Sonic's boost effect, you can just give her a final animation of speed with a sparkle or energy dome effect to signify that she can damage enemies with it.

I think this works because you can still use some momentum-based gimmicks (like that cradle slingshot) and have it look like she hit it with enough force to carry her.

The S-tube stuff is a bit harder. I personally think that if you're actually going to keep those, you might as well just make her roll through those because there's really no way to justify it other than giving her another new ability that allows her to keep momentum and fit through tight spaces. I think the roll will still work best for those UNLESS you decide to alter how they work, in which case then you'd be able to do whatever you wanted with it.

For instance, if they were no longer momentum based you could simply make her drill through the area similar to the way she uses her air dash (makes sense right?). However that wouldn't look right if you were actually able to stop halfway like in Sonic games.

Following a setup like that, the S-tunnel could have a constant minimum speed (meaning you cant stop). This would be increased by your initial speed (the speed you contacted the entrance with, similar to Sonic), and can be further increased / maintained by button mashing. (the character-player interaction, since she's drilling)

That way you can keep some of the momentum-based design and implement something of your own to set it far apart from sonic. I think it'd look way cooler than the regular S-tunnel anyway.

[Strife]

I've tried multiple ideas for rolling replacements, but none of them felt natural to me. Someone on Retro gave me the idea of redesigning the rolling animation a bit, so maybe it'll work if I just replace the solid sphere frames of the animation with a more general cartoony effect.

Anyway, let me ask you guys something... If Lilac wasn't in the game at all and Carol was pushed as the main protagonist, do you think the game would be criticized as much about the Sonic similarities? Sometimes I feel like Lilac is the only reason anyone has a problem with the similarities.

If I'm going to break out of the "Lilac Cycle" once and for all, then I should probably spend a few days in quiet isolation while I conceptualize a completely new design for her without outside interference. And then when I finally come up with something that I'm happy with, I need to take whatever criticisms I get in stride so I'm not pressured into restoring her original design, as has been the case the past 4-5 times I tried to change her.

[TailsSena]

I honestly think Lilac is fine how she is, but I can see where you're coming from.

As for Carol's pounce->roll... Perhaps replace the ball roll with a more realistic one... You know, like Sora's Dodge Roll.

[SalamiDragon]

The demo is much better than I had anticipated. I'll admit to having a bit of a negative bias towards media featuring fancharacters, but this is honestly a contender for one of the best games out this SAGE.

The graphics and music are both fresh and not blatantly ripped from other sources. (for the most part) Controls are solid, collision is fine, but the pacing in the level design seems a little off. I had a difficult time adjusting from the faster portions of the stage to the slower platforming sections. I'm not a big fan of the combat system either. Running up and smacking baddies really takes away from the momentum that drives some of the better 2D platforming games.

My criticisms and opinions aside, I wish you lots of luck in all of your future fangamery.

[Serephim]

Anyway, let me ask you guys something... If Lilac wasn't in the game at all and Carol was pushed as the main protagonist, do you think the game would be criticized as much about the Sonic similarities?

Me being honest? Probably wouldn't change anything.

***Let me first say that I obviously support FP, and don't really believe this game deserves to be called a copy. Im just speaking from an observational point of view. I think that the game is fine the way it is, but this is just my opinion directed at Strife's question. ***

I can definitely see how annoying it is to have your game constantly compared to Sonic, but honestly it should be expected. It's being built off a near perfect emulation of the original Sonic the Hedgehog engine. Like i said before, Sonic's gameplay is extremely easy to spot because of how unique it is. And ever since Sonic & Knuckles, there have been a great number of abilities Sonic has covered already. (Tails swims and flies, Knuckles glides and climbs walls, sonic had alot of random special moves with shields.) And Sonic Advance showed just how versatile Sonic platforming really can be with the ability to play as Amy Rose, who couldn't roll and had to use command attacks, similar to this game. So I dont think removing the Rolling mechanic is going to distance this game from Sonic at all. I dont think you should run away from the Sonic comparison because i PERSONALLY highly doubt that it'll go anywhere.

However, what I think what you SHOULD focus on is a general theme behind Lilac and Freedom Planet.

Lilac is a Water Dragon, right? What can you do to make her feel like a Water Dragon? She can roll, attack, swim, break rocks, form a shield, and dash through the air. But she doesn't really have anything that defines her. From a completely cynical point of view...Sonic can roll and break rocks, Tails can attack with his body and swim, all sonic characters can equip shields and Sparkster can drill through the air.

The whole idea behind Sonic the Hedgehog is the fact that...well, he's a hedgehog. In the the first game, the ONLY ability sonic had was to curl up into a ball and roll. Thats it. But that one single ability molds perfectly with everything in Sonic the Hedgehog, because that one ability, to Roll, pretty much defines the entire game. Rocket Knight, like Sonic, built ALL of the gameplay around Sparksters' character. All of his abilities, every single one of them, are an extension of his character -- A guy with a Sword and a Jetpack. The entire game consists of you abusing his ability to cut stuff and blast off the walls like a maniac using his jetpack+sword as a weapon.

See where im going? I dont think you should go as far to remove Lilac or redesign her, shes fine the way she is. But if you want to remove her from Sonic, you'll need to give both Lilac and the GAME something that Sonic the Hedgehog does not offer.

Bottom line is, unlike Sonic the Hedgehog or Rocket Knight, which built its core gameplay around its characters, Freedom Planet is a game that built its characters around its engine...which just so happens to be a Sonic the Hedgehog engine. So in order to dispel the feeling of Sonic, you're going to have to introduce something that makes Lilac feel like Lilac in Freedom Planet, and not Lilac in heavily edited Sonic Worlds. IMO this doesn't have to require anything particularly drastic, nor does it require you to remove things like slopes, momentum or rolling, because Sonic doesn't have a patent on such a simple concept.

[Falk]

I phrased this another way over at retro but honestly speaking at this point the only opinions that should matter are yours, and SEGA's (and Ziyo Ling's but I understand the recent issue there)

You started out wanting to make a platforming tribute to Sonic. Changing that now after gaining so much exposure is just asking to sell yourself short and possibly open you up to even more drastic feedback when people figure out they can influence the game to be what they want it to be, rather than what its creator wants it to be.

[Duckboy]

See where im going? I dont think you should go as far to remove Lilac or redesign her, shes fine the way she is. But if you want to remove her from Sonic, you'll need to give both Lilac and the GAME something that Sonic the Hedgehog does not offer.

Disagree. Maybe not a drastic change, but you need to remove her spikes at least if you want her to not look so much like Sonic. As much as you've been moving toward having this be an original game, the main characters still just looks like someone's Sonic fan character (which is apparently is). It hurts it. There's a few other things that need changing, but I DO feel that people saying it's THAT much like a Sonic game are being unfair. Lilac and her moveset are the main thing that really makes it feel like a Sonic game, because Carol doesn't really (except her ability to roll into a ball).

I phrased this another way over at retro but honestly speaking at this point the only opinions that should matter are yours, and SEGA's (and Ziyo Ling's but I understand the recent issue there)

You started out wanting to make a platforming tribute to Sonic. Changing that now after gaining so much exposure is just asking to sell yourself short and possibly open you up to even more drastic feedback when people figure out they can influence the game to be what they want it to be, rather than what its creator wants it to be.

I couldn't disagree more with everything in a post, for a number of reasons, but especially the "you shouldn't listen to anyone else's opinions but your own" part. That reads just like someone who puts drawings up somewhere like DA or something to show them off, but gets mad when someone gives it a critique. If you want the game to not live up to the potential that it can live up to, then sure don't listen to other's opinions or critiques, but I know it can be better and you've listened to a lot of the problems and fixed many of them so far.

It may sound harsh when i say things like "change Lilac's character design, take away things like roll, etc". But here's the thing: I could really give a shit about most of the games getting made on here nowadays. I'm pretty bored with fangames and especially Sonic fangames in general (Sonic BTS and ATS are fun don't get me wrong). But your game is verging on the edge of totally original, and I'd just love to see it be more than just a Sonic fangame. I'd love to see it on the steam store one day! And I think you should too! It's the only game on this dumb site I really give enough of a shit about to even post long dumb posts like this about.

Related, I actually find Carol more fun than Lilac simply BECAUSE Carol doesn't play as close to Sonic. Carol feels slower and more combat heavy and I enjoyed her more..

edit: Serephim is right in that the Sonic comparison will probably never go anywhere. But I think the comparison can be lessened a lot more than it currently is.

[Duckboy]

[qimg]http://i49.tinypic.com/2reihoy.gif[/qimg] -> [qimg]http://i47.tinypic.com/2uj2xde.gif[/qimg]

The only thing I can come up with as a suitable replacement for the rolling is this spinning maneuver similar the one Espio or Blaze uses. Even then, she would still need to curl into a ball in the split second before using a Comet Boost, since it would look weird otherwise. Also, I'm not sure if I can do the same thing with Carol, since her pouncing move transitions nicely into a roll.

One of my friends brought up the suggestion of replacing the roll with a baseball slide - which could work decently on normal surfaces, but it would look strange with gimmicks that force the player into ball mode, such as the S tunnel or a spinning cup gimmick that's present in Relic Maze Act 2:

[qimg]http://i46.tinypic.com/5bp5pf.png[/qimg]

If I'm going to rid the game of "ball mode" completely, then I will unfortunately need to scrap several of the gimmicks I've made so far that specifically utilize it. No idea what to do with the S tunnel or its switch-based cousin in Relic Maze Act 1, but I could change the spinny cup gimmick from a cup into a handlebar the player grabs onto as it descends.

On the other hand, I could just limit "ball mode" to very specific circumstances which include the use of these gimmicks. Maybe the elimination of the Spin Attack would be enough to differentiate it from Sonic?

Oh man I totally missed this. I love her spinning! I love it!!! So much better than rolling into a ball, and gives it her own personality!

[Strife]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Seraph has a really strong point about building gameplay around personality. I think I had a lot more luck doing that with Carol, to be honest - All of her unique abilities compliment her feline nature, such as her wall clinging, panel jumping, and pouncing. And if I ever made Spade a playable character, I would build his gameplay around his deck of cards, granting him unique powers based on combining them in different ways, and for Milla, basing her gameplay around shielding and counterattacking/reflecting to compliment her pacifist nature.

As far as Lilac goes, I think the best I could do at this point is to focus her abilities more heavily on her two long strands of hair. Her melee attacks already use them, and I'll bet that if I made them feel more prehensile or even had them change shape and length depending on what she's doing, then it might take the focus off the abilities she has in common with Sonic. Maybe I could change the rolling animation so that she stretches out her hair to cover her entire body like a ball of yarn, or into a wheel that she can grab onto and cartwheel with.

In any case, I've spent all night with my voice actress for Lilac working on a new design for her. I think we've come up with something that we're really happy with, but I won't reveal it until I've changed her entire spriteset to match the change. The next you'll see of her is probably a gameplay video showcasing the adjustments. I'll give you a hint: No more spiky hair.

[Falk]

That reads just like someone who puts drawings up somewhere like DA or something to show them off, but gets mad when someone gives it a critique.

You done putting the "straw" in "strawman" just about yet?

[Duckboy]

You literally said "the only opinions that should matter are yours" which I don't think is true.

[Strife]

I can see where he's coming from, though; I have to be careful not to compromise my artistic vision for the sake of appealing to the masses, because then the game loses its sense of direction with time. And that's especially important for someone like me who's had self-esteem issues their entire life and tends to quickly change sides whenever someone brings up a convincing argument. I hate myself for doing it because it leaves me vulnerable to the whims of vocal minorities. ._.

That's pretty much the reason why I'm not going to show Lilac's redesign this time until I've put it into the game.

[Falk]

You literally said "the only opinions that should matter are yours" which I don't think is true.

All about context. In some respects, the above is true. Without meaning to shamelessly plug, if I hadn't pushed through with what I thought was a musical direction to go for, BTS may either have been simply left as it was, or had a VOPM/chiptune/retro-ish new soundtrack. As it was, I -knew- what I was going for and I stuck by my guns despite quite a few people yelling heresy (wobble and orchestrals in a retro, pixellated fangame?)

Listening to feedback has its merits, don't get me wrong. Equating the current situation, with its history of the Lilac cycle, to the reprobates on DeviantArt, on the other hand, is pretty much as strawman as it gets. Like I said, all about context.

That being said, I'm glad Strife has picked a direction and moved with it. Being stagnated by indecision is far worse.