Sonic Adventure 3

[flame6753]

The videos weren't made for the sole purpose of being on this site, and as I've already explained, the people on Youtube seem satisfied with screens XD

I'll post some later, when I'm not about to pass out.

still wouldve been smarter to actually make a video of the gameplay, and post a link to the screen shots elsewhere. (the new demo is really good by the way). You should rename the first post to screenshots instead of videos

[Snooky]

If it's for the sake of improvement(and the players' eyes), I'd atleast give the effort of trying to move it to one of those. That number of polygons should not drop my computer's frame rates down to 28, knowing KCCh keeps it steady at 60 for me(that's DarkBasic Pro, but yeah).

The FPS should be 30, so you're good XD 2 frames down a second isn't terrible. Aaaaaaaand impossible. I'm way too far on this.

As for the camera, I suggest you have keys for turning the camera left/right, and not use the mouse at all. Also have it so it always gradually turns toward the direction Sonic's facing. I think the rate at which the camera turns should be related to Sonic's speed, though perhaps that may make things dizzy. As far as I've played SA/SADX, I'm pretty sure that's the way it worked, except for the few fixed camera sections.

Good idea. I'll do that.

still wouldve been smarter to actually make a video of the gameplay, and post a link to the screen shots elsewhere. (the new demo is really good by the way). You should rename the first post to screenshots instead of videos

Lags too much. The recorder, not the game. I'll post screens, though.

[Minon]

define "too far"

30 still isn't the prettiest rate, especially for a high-speed game like Sonic is. I'm just horribly bothered by the fact that so few polygons that isn't even using the simplest lighting effects can't even keep the frame rate above 30.

And for a recorder, I've not had any problems with Fraps or Hypercam2. Although Fraps forces frame rates so you gotta remember to adjust that.

[Snooky]

define "too far"

30 still isn't the prettiest rate, especially for a high-speed game like Sonic is. I'm just horribly bothered by the fact that so few polygons that isn't even using the simplest lighting effects can't even keep the frame rate above 30.

And for a recorder, I've not had any problems with Fraps or Hypercam2. Although Fraps forces frame rates so you gotta remember to adjust that.

Too far, done with everything character related, the greater bit of levels already completely finished, almost everything is done.

And I'm actually using Camtasia, I'll redownload Fraps.

[DimensionWarped]

I find that hard to believe considering what I was playing. I thought you said you were wanting to make something with good gameplay.

[Snooky]

I find that hard to believe considering what I was playing. I thought you said you were wanting to make something with good gameplay.

Thank you for that highly informative and constructive criticism. I will look into that and try to change it.

[Damizean]

Snooky, at least do some preprocessing:

At the start of the level, create models with large groups of meshes that use the same texture, so you can render large chunks at once. Switching the texture from a model to another is a great penalty for the graphics card, so it's better to send the geometry with the same texture once.

[DimensionWarped]

Thank you for that highly informative and constructive criticism. I will look into that and try to change it.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, you really need to work on the delivery. Maybe try some italics on highly and it needs more a more loathing tone and at least an ounce of seeping hatred that just gets out in spite of your best effort to keep it locked away.

Seriously though, two weeks ago what I played was squarely in the category of tech demo and in no way was something that could be considered a real game. If you are honestly telling us that what you have there is an almost finished project, I am disappointed.

[Snooky]

Snooky, at least do some preprocessing:

At the start of the level, create models with large groups of meshes that use the same texture, so you can render large chunks at once. Switching the texture from a model to another is a great penalty for the graphics card, so it's better to send the geometry with the same texture once.

Wait, what? Damn, I feel stupid after reading that >_< Umm...hopefully I understand all this XP "create models with large groups of meshes that use the same texture" The entire character model uses the same texture, if that's what you mean, and most of that is the same color :\ "Switching the texture from a model to another is a great penalty for the graphics card" Not doing that "so it's better to send the geometry with the same texture once." And at that I'm lost again. Please forgive me for not understanding all this mysterious 3D speak.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, you really need to work on the delivery. Maybe try some italics on highly and it needs more a more loathing tone and at least an ounce of seeping hatred that just gets out in spite of your best effort to keep it locked away.

Wait, what again? I'm not clinically insane ._. I just think you could go into a bit more detail of why you don't like it, instead of just saying 'LOL 1t sucks.'

Seriously though, two weeks ago what I played was squarely in the category of tech demo and in no way was something that could be considered a real game. If you are honestly telling us that what you have there is an almost finished project, I am disappointed.

It is almost finished. What I uploaded was the tech demo.

[FanGameRevolver]

Snooky, at least do some preprocessing:

At the start of the level, create models with large groups of meshes that use the same texture, so you can render large chunks at once. Switching the texture from a model to another is a great penalty for the graphics card, so it's better to send the geometry with the same texture once.

considering the fact that he's using Game Maker he either has to stick with Mark Overmar's rather terrible d3d scripts, rewrite GameMaker, or start from scratch with a different program.

If he's using GM7 d3d the same way I am in my project the level is designed by drawing every polygon individually every single frame...tho from what you explained to snooky I'm considering laying out most of the level in models rather than d3d polygons. *imagines the time to load external files with Gamemaker*......eep! (what i mean by that joke is: yes...the game could run smoother...if you're ok with it taking about an hour before you find yourself playing the game)

The only way me or snooky could make our 3d games look better and still be practical is by using a different method for game design (somthing which neither of us are skilled enough to do....) *wishes he understood C++*

My biggest issue, with this d3d situation as of this moment, however, is the fact that we are being criticized by DW who has not shown any 3D work or given any actual help to fix the problem besides saying "it needs work and looks unappealing in terms of visuals."

[USC]

Oh there was a time, many moons ago, when DW was a young 3D programmer trying to prove himself with a game that shared his name. If I remember correctly, he got flamed fairly badly and went on a journey of self discovery before returning, disillusioned. XD

Anyway, I don't know if you'll finish this, and I lack the technical knowledge to help, but good luck regardless.

[FanGameRevolver]

Oh there was a time, many moons ago, when DW was a young 3D programmer trying to prove himself with a game that shared his name. If I remember correctly, he got flamed fairly badly and went on a journey of self discovery before returning, disillusioned. XD

ah sorry DW, didn't realize this,... (journeys of self discovery rule! XD)

We seem to be getting off topic.... anyway I spent some time today working with the lighting scripts for game maker...I think I may be able to make d3d not look like a flaming ball of fail. I'll post again if I find myself pulling it off.

[DimensionWarped]

Oh there was a time, many moons ago, when DW was a young 3D programmer trying to prove himself with a game that shared his name. If I remember correctly, he got flamed fairly badly and went on a journey of self discovery before returning, disillusioned. XD

Anyway, I don't know if you'll finish this, and I lack the technical knowledge to help, but good luck regardless.

What you didn't mention was the rabid army of fanboys, the borked tech demos I released, the not so borked tech demo that didn't really do anything exciting except look pretty (but damn did it look pretty), or the constant effort to put a team together that never really went anywhere because when you get right down to it, no one knows dick about 3D myself included.

Well, a couple of us do now. Mostly Mark and Dami. I'm better than I was, but haven't really focused on anything 3D in a long... outside of maybe a model or two here and there.

Oh right, criticism.

Levels lack certain elements. In this case, the goals are ill defined. It's easy to get lost or even turned around. It's something that can easily be fixed with well placed doodads and landmarks. It helps to have terrain that actually curves rather than a constant flat surface of the same greens done over and over again. I don't really understand dash pads in a green hill type zone. I know they are in all of them in the various 3D games out there, but thats just not the way Sonic did it. The only reason it's the way Sonic does it is because they don't like to make more than 8 gimmicks in a game now and are careless enough to just throw them everywhere while paying little attention to theming or purpose. In this particular game, going fast is a death sentence anyway since the floors are narrow and there are holes awaiting you if you so much as step a little off. Aside from that the only real gimmick I noted was the spring... which is fairly boring as far as gimmicks go. It's your standard 'no user control, constant movement, wake me when its over' thing, and thats fine if its used sparingly, but it never is since there simply aren't enough gimmicks to make a different kind of experience.

Doodads should be easy enough. Making your levels more interesting however will be significantly more challenging, especially since (if I'm thinking correctly here) you don't have the capacity for sloped terrain.

Oh, but here is a touch of the 3D work that I've done since you seem interested Revolver:

Actually, very little there is actually mine. Someone else did the tree, Blaze textured it, Duckboy did the texture for the sign, the Sonic model is from Heroes (I just textured and did the animation. And Streak came along later and redid the animation too). I did the funky water effect, but I got the sky graphics from someone else too.

These days I'm much more proud of my garbage dumpster model:

Now thats quality.

[FanGameRevolver]

Damn have I ever been shown up. (He even managed to make garbage look more appealing than my sonic game XD)

as far as making levels unique that brings up a very excellent point. What makes a level is not a specific texture or tile set it is truly what you do in each level that defines it...Something that can be rather difficult to achieve with only a few gimmicks. If each level has unique level defining features the level will stand out. (like the roller coaster and smallish mini games throughout twinkle park) Otherwise, regardless of prettiness its just another level that you may not ever remember...

And new gimmicks only take a few seconds but add much more to game play (btw im a total hypocrite XD....Ill try to get better)

[Damizean]

*imagines the time to load external files with Gamemaker*

Actually, loading Game Maker 3D models is quite fast, way faster than generating the meshes.

[Snooky]

DW, I am actually working on having level-specific gimmicks for each level now, to make each level as different an experience as possible. FTA said something about it in a Hellfire Comms playthrough XD

The abundant death pits are now gone, I got lots of complaints about that so I heavily edited the first level:

Boing

That has nothing to do with pits, but I just thought I'd show an example of level-specific gimmicks...and references that you might get.

Aaaaand, I re-installed Fraps, and it doesn't lag at all, so I made a trailer to show off the new level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRvFpwbJ3So

Expect more soon.

[Cyber Rat]

So, I managed to surmount my hatred towards games that look/play like the first PSX 3D games, and finished the Sonic demo in the first post. My FPS was a constant 30/30, but I'll have to criticize this. I don't know if it's because it's at a very early stage of development, but I see nothing fun in this game. Don't get me wrong, kudos for making a fullblown 3D engine, but for now I see no challenges other than the Legoland levels being played with the Mouse Camera of Doom. Basically, when the player's concentration is focused on trying not to fall accidentally off the edge, and stopping after every corner, you have something wrong with your game.

Allow me to elaborate: making stops mid-level to time jumps on moving platforms is absolutely ok, making stops every few seconds as to not fall off the level is not.

I've also seen the the Lava Reef trailer and it has the same issues as with the level in the demo. My advice would be to make the camera closer (AND FOCUSED), build 'walls' around the track, and make linear levels with branching paths. Get a hold of the first Crash Bandicoot for the PSX and play the first level, since I think that's the only 'initial 3D game' that didn't cause brain tumor. These 'vast levels of nothingness' where you can fall off the ledge and into oblivion (personally) scare the shit out of me.

On a side note, anyone remember Bubsy 3D?

EDIT:

Here is Crash Bandicoot 1. Notice the smart way of avoiding limited 3D technology:

Here is Bubsy 3D.

[Snooky]

So, I managed to surmount my hatred towards games that look/play like the first PSX 3D games, and finished the Sonic demo in the first post. My FPS was a constant 30/30, but I'll have to criticize this. I don't know if it's because it's at a very early stage of development, but I see nothing fun in this game. Don't get me wrong, kudos for making a fullblown 3D engine, but for now I see no challenges other than the Legoland levels being played with the Mouse Camera of Doom. Basically, when the player's concentration is focused on trying not to fall accidentally off the edge, and stopping after every corner, you have something wrong with your game.

Allow me to elaborate: making stops mid-level to time jumps on moving platforms is absolutely ok, making stops every few seconds as to not fall off the level is not.

I've also seen the the Lava Reef trailer and it has the same issues as with the level in the demo. My advice would be to make the camera closer (AND FOCUSED), build 'walls' around the track, and make linear levels with branching paths. Get a hold of the first Crash Bandicoot for the PSX and play the first level, since I think that's the only 'initial 3D game' that didn't cause brain tumor. These 'vast levels of nothingness' where you can fall off the ledge and into oblivion (personally) scare the shit out of me.

On a side note, anyone remember Bubsy 3D?

EDIT:

Here is Crash Bandicoot 1. Notice the smart way of avoiding limited 3D technology:

Here is Bubsy 3D.

Yes. Lava Reef needs work XD And I will work on the level-falling, that does seem to be a huge problem. Walls seem like a great idea.

Also, Bubsy 3D looks terrible ._.

EDIT: Also, I tried adding controller support, but there were complications...GM has no function to check for button presses as opposed to the normal button check, and the DLL I used was glitchy as all fuck and didn't register half my button presses. So, apologies.

[Cyber Rat]

Also, Bubsy 3D looks terrible ._.

Yes, Bubsy 3D is terrible. Never make anything like Bubsy 3D, because that would make you a terrible person.

[Rael0505]

ahahahaha, I love how Bubsy talks incessantly. You should make Sonic do the same.

[Snooky]

ahahahaha, I love how Bubsy talks incessantly. You should make Sonic do the same.

Yes! I can make it more like Sonic 06 that way!

I should also make everyone move abnormally slow and make sure about 20 different glitches pop up every five minutes!

[Endri]

Here is Crash Bandicoot 1. Notice the smart way of avoiding limited 3D technology:

Crash was so ahead of it's time. It's close to unbelivable, now that I know how the PSX hardware really works, how they managed to get around the hardware limitations, and pull together a game this well elaborated.

ahahahaha, I love how Bubsy talks incessantly. You should make Sonic do the same.

Definitely! XD

[Snooky]

Beta gameplay video released. You'll be pleased to know you can play Super Sonic in-level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-zDHuX3JI

[Cyber Rat]

I see you're attempting to follow my advice and build walls around the actual level (at some places). Here's what I see wrong for now (in addition to my other complaints):

-You are building a wall around the track, but the leaves and walls in the way of seeing where one is going.

-A Super Sonic that can fly over the level is a really broken feature.

I strongly suggest you focus first and foremost on the awful camera. Then proceed adapting a level design that works well with your engine. After you've done that and polished the movement, THEN think about fancy stuff like TVs, Super Sonic, Chaos Emeralds, or multiple characters.

[Snooky]

I see you're attempting to follow my advice and build walls around the actual level (at some places). Here's what I see wrong for now (in addition to my other complaints):

-You are building a wall around the track, but the leaves and walls in the way of seeing where one is going.

-A Super Sonic that can fly over the level is a really broken feature.

I strongly suggest you focus first and foremost on the awful camera. Then proceed adapting a level design that works well with your engine. After you've done that and polished the movement, THEN think about fancy stuff like TVs, Super Sonic, Chaos Emeralds, or multiple characters.

-I am building walls around some parts of the track, where it would be easy to fall off. I'll take out some of the trees and all that might be blocking the view, though.

-Super Sonic is only playable after you beat the game, so flying over the level doesn't really hurt. People will have already played through the whole thing proper by the time they use Super Sonic. However, I am going to put a limit on how high you can fly to avoid people flying above everything.

I tried coding out different camera paths for each level, but that failed, so I'm going to implement this kind of camera system as another option.