Sonic Small World

[Djawed]

I must say that i am REAAAAAAAAALLY impressed. This looks like something sonicteam should use as a basis. Wow man, this got so much potential and it feels actually really close to the pinball physics.

Big props for the instashield in 3d.

The camera seems to be the greatest issue as someone else pointed out. If you can manage to asign the camera for the mouse and restrict it so it's impossible to few from awkward angles than ure good to go in tweaking the rest.

Edit: Ah I just read the above post. I support you all the way man. It would indeed be a waste to stop as I think the way this is looking it got a lot of potential, as in more than the adventure games control schemes (which is the best sonicteam came with free roaming esque 3d controls before they went with straight forward unleashed gameplay)

[Core]

Thanks for your comment, Jwiwo. I appreciate feedback. Personally I'd rather play with the keyboard only than have to use the mouse, but I might reconsider that.

Now I'm sorry to ask, but if you don't mind, could you please answer some of the questions from my previous post? That would help me a lot.

[Serephim]

I must say that i am REAAAAAAAAALLY impressed. This looks like something sonicteam should use as a basis. Wow man, this got so much potential and it feels actually really close to the pinball physics.

Why do people keep comparing these demos to Sonic Team's engines?

Anyway, im pretty impressed with the engine. A few points..

- The Insta Shield is nice, but it seems more like a necessity than a helpful alternative to hitting something. Maybe you should extend Sonic's hitbox while jumping to somewhat larger than his model? It's exceedingly difficult to hit something without the shield.

- The camera was my biggest enemy in this engine test. Work on it a bit more, and we have something really nice. Is there a reason you didn't allow mouse+keyboard camera movement?

- Like the turning and rolling physics and such, as well as the little details in the environments. Pretty nice.

Edit: Oh.

I've been thinking of some ways I could make level design easier for me. Right now I'm busy with another game but I'm considering going back to Sonic Small World afterward.

But I really need honest input from people who have played the last demo.

Are you bothered that the stage is basically a flat surface suspended in mid-air? That the cliffs and platforms are just square blocks?

Is the level too narrow?

Are there too many spikes?

Do the level feel too blocky and not natural enough? Is it alright if the hilly areas are separate from the blocky areas?

Is it a problem when the textures don't mesh (for example when you have a curve with a cliff texture right next to a grassy ground)? Is it sometimes hard to tell what the textures correspond to (for example when you can't tell where a platform ends because the ground below has the same texture)?

Is the vegetation well-placed and is helping make the level feel more natural? Or is it just pointless as the level will never feel natural? Or is there not enough vegetation?

What parts of the level do you particularly like or dislike?

I'm sorry to bother you with so many questions, but I really need your help. Thanks in advance.

It's really good that you're asking this.

In my opinion, i think it's fine. You can ease up on the spikes a LITTLE bit. As for textures, i dont have a problem with them, but thats most likely because this is a fangame. But no, they never really "ran together" or anything.

If you're conscious about the level looking like it's suspended in mid air, then you can just put some foliage or rocks around the border to make it look more like a natural area you're running around in. The blockyness of the stage doesn't bother me much. Sonic games usually are blocks + curves, anyway.

Really, you just need to remember to keep it varied. Sonic games need platforming segments, as well as segments with fun terrain to run around in and really peel out the speed and have fun with sonic's funny ability to ignore gravity when running up walls. Continue to be creative with the terrain and multiple paths. The end result is to have fun traversing the level.

You can mix and match the hilly and blocky areas, or you can keep them separate, but for best effect i guess you can mix them. Just remember, Sonic has trouble accelerating on sloped surfaces, and they also affect his jumping, so avoid putting annoying enemies on sloped or hilly terrain as it'll just piss people off. (unless you're encouraged to just roll through them, which hilly terrain helps with.) An example in your demo is near the beginning with the 2 slopes with spikes AND enemies on them. That was pretty annoying.

People may get mad at me for saying this, but IMO some of the best level design references you can get from a Sonic Game will come from Sonic Heroes. That game had very nice environments, and mixed running segments, a few branching paths and things to do very well. This was mostly due to everyone having their own abilities. Sonic and Knuckles helped branch the level design out without harming the pace too much. The only thing that made me angry about Heroes levels were the placing of their checkpoints. The levels got very long, and had a few areas that would kill you with a small physics glitch or platforming segment, and make you do like 2 minutes of the stage over again. Try not to make that mistake.

[Core]

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Serephim. It means a lot to me. I'll be sure to take your remarks into account for the next version.

The camera was my biggest enemy in this engine test. Work on it a bit more, and we have something really nice. Is there a reason you didn't allow mouse+keyboard camera movement?

It just never crossed my mind. When I was developing the game, I had never played a fangame using the Blitz engine, so using the mouse to move the camera was an unknown concept to me. Using only the keyboard seemed a logical choice, and I also need to make the controls easily mappable to a controller (and probably take into account that not every controller has 2 control sticks).

Ideally, most of the time the player shouldn't have to move the camera manually.

My main problem with the camera is that I don't know any algorithm explaining how it is supposed to work. In the earliest demo the camera would turn and replace itself behind Sonic every time you weren't moving. In the latest versions, the camera turns when you move to the left or right (but not when you're moving diagonally). This system got better feedback, but I don't know how a proper camera system should work.

[Serephim]

Well yes, i agree with you when you say that ideally, the player shouldn't have to move the camera. Keyboard only helps to keep the feeling of a platformer, and having the developer control the camera makes certian aspects of the game very easy to control and design for. 100% camera control is overrated these days imo.

For an engine test, it just makes it easier as an alternative.

[Core]

Hello everyone.

I've decided to make a thread for my game. I would really appreciate feedback

So, Sonic Small World is a small 3D Sonic fangame. The SAGE demo only features a single short level but it should give you a good idea of what I'm trying to do.

(Admittedly, there are not many changes in this version compared to the previous one I released here. The level is just a bit longer and there are a few minor tweaks...)

Anyway, the booth is here:

http://sonicsmallworld.webs.com

And the direct download link:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/agbffc

Please leave feedback

[Core]

Anyone?

Even if you think the game sucks, I would appreciate if you just said so. Please.

[Shadix]

I love this. Your Nights fangame was terrific and on the road to being a pretty cool project

[Strife]

It doesn't suck at all - it's just not getting any attention since everyone is playing Axiom and Before The Sequel. xD

Anyway, I would like to mention that this game has the best animations for a 3D Sonic model I've seen in a fangame. Did you extract them from one of the official games? ^^ Either way, if you can figure out how to smoothly transition between animations (instead of Sonic jerking immediately from jumping to falling, for example), then I'd say you're golden.

[sonicyoda]

The real issue I had with this is that you can't control the camera (or if you can, you certainly can't do it with the mouse). It would be a tonne easier to play if you can move the camera with the mouse so you can direct Sonic in the way it's facing (like GDK/Freerunner).

Also, the stage is too bland. It's clearly a corridor with half the textures missing (or if they're not missing, those white ramps look very silly). Also not keen on the random transition from grass to sand/stone.

You should work on giving the player a wide, open space to explore with different land-masses to explore. Take a look at Robo Blast 2 for influence on how to make an interesting 3D stage to explore.

[Serephim]

Before i bother you about the stage (which is fine for a 3D fangame like this, i understand it's a bit different than a 2D game), the biggest issue is the physics.

Specifically speaking, Sonic's speed. He turns too sharply and keeps too much of his speed, so when i turn it feels like im being thrown in another direction. It simply makes him too hard to control.

Also, controlling sonic while airborne is also quite difficult.

Other than that, this is actually pretty awesome. It's not bad at all, dont sell yourself so short : 3

Don't worry about filling the stage with foliage or anything at this point. Most people who do that end up destroying the framerate of the game due to management issues. And besides, thats a touchup job. The content in the itself is far more important than how it looks at this stage.

[Core]

Hey, thank you all. I really appreciate that you took the time to leave a comment.

Anyway, I would like to mention that this game has the best animations for a 3D Sonic model I've seen in a fangame. Did you extract them from one of the official games?

Yes, Sonic's model and his animations are all from Sonic Colors (except the animation when you get hit, which I made myself I think). I'll try to add transitions if I keep working on the game.

The real issue I had with this is that you can't control the camera (or if you can, you certainly can't do it with the mouse). It would be a tonne easier to play if you can move the camera with the mouse so you can direct Sonic in the way it's facing (like GDK/Freerunner).

Well you can control the camera, though not with the mouse. Initially I didn't want to make the player use the mouse for various reasons, but I may reconsider that.

Also, the stage is too bland. It's clearly a corridor with half the textures missing (or if they're not missing, those white ramps look very silly).

That's strange, no texture should be missing are there are no white ramps. Unless you're talking about the gray ramps with a rock texture?

You should work on giving the player a wide, open space to explore with different land-masses to explore. Take a look at Robo Blast 2 for influence on how to make an interesting 3D stage to explore.

Thanks, I'll try. Level design certainly needs work, though I don't want to make the levels too wide or the player may get lost.

Specifically speaking, Sonic's speed. He turns too sharply and keeps too much of his speed, so when i turn it feels like im being thrown in another direction. It simply makes him too hard to control.

Well, Sonic is supposed to keep all of his speed when turning, because I want him to rotate rather than accelerating in a direction and decelerating in another. When you say he turns too sharply, do you mean at low speeds only or also at high speeds? Because at high speeds I actually think he turns a bit slowly.

Anyway, thanks again and of course, more feedback is still appreciated.

[Bosco]

Hey Kentilan, I really like this one.

It quite reminds me of Sonic Into Dreams mode in your NiGHTS fangame.

[Core]

I think an update of this thread is overdue.

I don't have a new demo ready yet, but I'd like to share what I've done so far since the SAGE version.

- I added optional mouse control. Move the mouse to move the camera, left click to jump, right click to roll. (but it's not perfect, I need to improve it)

- When playing with a controller, you can now move the camera with the right analog stick (or triggers/bumpers).

- Checkpoints are now wider (in the demo, the checkpoints were quite narrow so it was rather difficult hit them).

As I showed in the screenshot thread, the textures of the first level are now brighter and more saturated:

I also posted these test screenshots of the second act:

(you can also see that I've added walls around the map so that the level doesn't look like it's floating in midair)

Since then I've replaced the brick texture:

(ignore the white wall in the background)

And more recently:

In addition to the walls, you can see more natural-looking formations, moving floating grass platforms, and those big flowers (they throw the player when you touch them, like a dash ring).

Now I need to remake the first act and tweak the physics, and hopefully I'll have a new demo ready in not too long. Thanks for your patience and any comments are welcome.

[SonicFan2010]

It may be a "Small World", but to me this is a big update. XD

[Chaos-Fusion]

Tried out the Sage demo and I can say it's not too bad. Gameplay wise, it's alright and it ran smoothly on my computer but controls can be a bit dodgy(and the gravity is harsh :/ )

[Core]

@SonicFan2010 and chaos fusion: thanks for the comments

A few things:

First of all, Ayling has offered to write music for the game. So, future versions should feature original music. Thanks, Ayling

Then, I have new screenshots (also posted in the screenshot thread):

Finally... Anyone want to beta-test? I'm mostly looking for feedback on the level design. The engine hasn't changed much since the SAGE version, and I know it needs improvement, but I've made about 25% of the first level and I would at least like to know if I'm on the right track before going further. Any volunteers?

[Core]

New screenshots. The first level (first act) is now about 50% done (or more if I decide to make it shorter than initially planned). Before finishing the level, I'll now work on the programming; I need to improve the controls and camera among other things.

I'm still looking for testers by the way.

[Chaos-Fusion]

I wouldn't mind testing it out but at the moment, I don't have a computer that can run games of any kind.(mac). If you still need Beta testers in 7-8 weeks time(Game will probably be more complete around then) sign me up. Screenshots look pretty good afterall.

[sonicyoda]

I wouldn't mind testing it out but at the moment, I don't have a computer that can run games of any kind.(mac). If you still need Beta testers in 7-8 weeks time(Game will probably be more complete around then) sign me up. Screenshots look pretty good afterall.

Ha! Hate to burst your bubble but Macs are notoriously bad at running fangames. Or games in general for that matter.

[Chaos-Fusion]

Ha! Hate to burst your bubble but Macs are notoriously bad at running fangames. Or games in general for that matter.

lol. Thats what I was suggesting.

[Core]

Hello, I need some opinions.

There are currently 2 items boxes in the game (10 rings and shield), so I thought I should try to add more.

I don't really want to add speed shoes or invincibility as I don't think they're too useful (though I may change my mind about invincibility), so I thought about adding more shields.

For example, having an electric shield that attract rings, and a fire shield that can damage enemies when you're rolling or jumping (basically increasing Sonic's collision size), and a green shield that double the insta-shield's size and duration.

Or, an electric shield that only attracts rings when you use the insta-shield, and a fire shield that makes the insta-shield much bigger, and a green shield with another insta-shield effect...

(I would like to avoid implementing special moves such as a double jump, because unless I make all the cliffs twice higher, I fear that could potentially break the game.)

In addition, since I don't use lives, I'm wondering if there's something else I could do with the rings (notably when you get 100), aside from just a score bonus at the end of the level...

Any thoughts?

[SonicFan2010]

Wow! You don't use lives? Maybe they can contribute to a health meter for Sonic, then. I don't know what to say about the shields, but maybe you can make item boxes that summon Miles "Tails" Prower, Knuckles the Echidna, or any of Sonic's friends to the fray (only for a limited abount of time).

[Core]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm mostly looking for ideas that would not be too difficult to implement. A health meter should be easy, but it would not fit with the current ring system.

[GiriX]

Maybe you could do ring based health like the Tails/Eggman missions in SA2?