Sonic the Hedgehog Phore

[Chaos Rush]

I'm not quite sure how many people would agree with me, but SEGA/Dimps' Sonic 4 is a very poor sequel to the epicly awesomeness of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles. So, I decided I should make my own Sonic 4. I don't give a shit about the fact that the name is taken, since technically my fangame is called Sonic Phore.

Features (not everything has been implemented yet):

*Classic physics

*Sonic, Tails, Knuckles fully playable (maybe Amy in the future)

*Mini-bosses like S3&K

*Actually new badniks

*Actually new zones

*Actually new bosses

*Super Emeralds (in addition to Chaos Emeralds)

*Elemental shields

*Checkpoint minigames

*An actual plot

*At least 14-zones planned

*Probably anything else that S3&K had that S4 didn't

*I might give them their Sonic Advance 1 moves, since that game was classic-y, and their moves didn't break the game

Screenshots:

This is made with Game Maker 7 using Damizean and RogueYoshi's Xmas Engine.

I know it's not a good idea to post this considering how little progress I've made, but oh well. If you have level ideas, please post it.

To do list (not for the whole game, this small list will get replaced with newer lists once it gets completed):

-Give this zone a name that I won't forget

-make the sand more curved

-Add a layer of flowers or something in the foreground similar to AAZ

-Add better detail to the bridges

-Add things to the background

-Design a 3rd badnik

-Finish Act 1 (should take at least 3 minutes to complete)

-Design Act 2's background art

-Design Act 2's gimmicks

EDIT: The list above is a bit out of date because I'm sick of Damizean's Xmas Engine so I'm working on a new one. Because of that, I'm releasing everything I did before deciding to switch engines:

Here is the really lame, 1-Act Alpha

[Asuma]

I have an unfinished level desing, you can use it.

[MegaDash]

Cool. A few things though:

1. The sand is too bright and lacks contrast and texture. Try adding some herbal growth closer to the foreground, like at the beginning of Angel Island Zone, to help break up the monotony and give the sense that, at some points, you're looking past bushes and trees towards Sonic. Experiment with coloring the sand and giving it layers of texture.

2. So far, the layout looks to have too many sharp angles and not enough smooth rolling curves.

3. See about retexturing the bridges to give them more of a woody look instead of an MS Paint look.

g00d luk!

[luksamuk]

Chaos Rush, your graphics seem quite well, but still I feel like something's missing on it. I'm sorry if I'm being rude, and this is not actually a big problem, but it doesn't exactly look like classic style...

But meh. Only think I hafta say is that you should make the sand floor more curved. It looks too flat to actually be sand.

[sonicyoda]

Graphics are fine but they're a bit 'advancey' for the 16 bit sprites. Perhaps it would be better to use Advance sprites or change the shading to match the 16 bit feel.

Also, the grass shadow is far too big. Draw it in a bit.

[Cstyler]

Nice start for a project.

I agree with MegaDash's criticism, plus this little detail:

The grass has to be in front of the characters here.

And I think you need more detailed background, try just to put some islands or something.

[Ristar]

you can have my Sonic Millennia soundtrack for it if you'd like.

The original title for the game was Sonic and Knuckles 2... so sort of connected.

[Chaos Rush]

Cool. A few things though:

1. The sand is too bright and lacks contrast and texture. Try adding some herbal growth closer to the foreground, like at the beginning of Angel Island Zone, to help break up the monotony and give the sense that, at some points, you're looking past bushes and trees towards Sonic. Experiment with coloring the sand and giving it layers of texture.

2. So far, the layout looks to have too many sharp angles and not enough smooth rolling curves.

3. See about retexturing the bridges to give them more of a woody look instead of an MS Paint look.

g00d luk!

Yes, everything you mentioned will be done, as I was playing Angel Island Zone the other day to see what I need to make it "pop", and stuff like those parallax bushes that are in front of the player need to be added. Thanks for the suggestions.

Chaos Rush, your graphics seem quite well, but still I feel like something's missing on it. I'm sorry if I'm being rude, and this is not actually a big problem, but it doesn't exactly look like classic style...

But meh. Only think I hafta say is that you should make the sand floor more curved. It looks too flat to actually be sand.

Graphics are fine but they're a bit 'advancey' for the 16 bit sprites. Perhaps it would be better to use Advance sprites or change the shading to match the 16 bit feel.

Also, the grass shadow is far too big. Draw it in a bit.

Should a Sonic 4 been made in the 90's that was up to the scale of S3&K, it probably would have been released in 1996-97. That being said, it would have been a SEGA Saturn game, with 32-bit graphics. That, and the fact that I'm going to take full advantage of me not being limited by the graphical capabilities of the SEGA Genesis/MegaDrive. This isn't a Genesis/MegaDrive/Saturn game, this is a Game Maker game, so I really don't give a shit about how many colors I use.

That being said, I think my rocks and my palm trees are quite sexy. And yes, I will make the sand more curved .

The grass has to be in front of the characters here.

And I think you need more detailed background, try just to put some islands or something.

Yes, the background does look rather empty, but I was planning on making Act 2's background have the islands, since every zone in S3&K had a different background depending on the act. (except Angel Island Zone, where the latter half of Act 1 shared Act 2's graphics, and Mushroom Hill Zone, where both acts shared graphics but with Act 2 having "seasons", and Lava Reef Zone, where the background AND foreground were different).

(I've added a to-do list to the first post)

Also, I'd like to hear tips on what makes good classic level design, since I'm no expert. My previous fangame, Sonic Revival, was basically SPEEDSPEEDSPEED which isn't exactly classic, so if anyone wants to help with level design, please post tips and suggestions!

[Hypersonic645]

The only thing kinda throwing me off is the grass on the second screenshot. There aren't any edges for the grass, which is kind of weird. Everything else looks promising.

[MegaDash]

Yes, everything you mentioned will be done, as I was playing Angel Island Zone the other day to see what I need to make it "pop", and stuff like those parallax bushes that are in front of the player need to be added. Thanks for the suggestions.

Should a Sonic 4 been made in the 90's that was up to the scale of S3&K, it probably would have been released in 1996-97. That being said, it would have been a SEGA Saturn game, with 32-bit graphics. That, and the fact that I'm going to take full advantage of me not being limited by the graphical capabilities of the SEGA Genesis/MegaDrive. This isn't a Genesis/MegaDrive/Saturn game, this is a Game Maker game, so I really don't give a shit about how many colors I use.

That's fine, but in that case, I recommend scrapping the sprite sheets for Sonic and Tails and either hiring someone to make new 32-bit sprites, make them yourself, or "upgrade" the existing sheets to a 32-bit level of color and detail. That's if you want to get the full effect of a 2D Sega Saturn Sonic game.

I'm just looking out for you on this one. If you don't get it right, Segata Sanshiro will be around to kick your ass when you least expect it. And then he'll make you play Sega Saturn.

Also, I'd like to hear tips on what makes good classic level design, since I'm no expert. My previous fangame, Sonic Revival, was basically SPEEDSPEEDSPEED which isn't exactly classic, so if anyone wants to help with level design, please post tips and suggestions!

Be imaginative. No two acts or zones in the classic Sonic games were exactly alike. They were rich in structural differences between acts and overall stylistic differences between zones. If the game feels like a Rush or an Advance game, then you're doing something wrong.

[Chaos Rush]

That's fine, but in that case, I recommend scrapping the sprite sheets for Sonic and Tails and either hiring someone to make new 32-bit sprites, make them yourself, or "upgrade" the existing sheets to a 32-bit level of color and detail. That's if you want to get the full effect of a 2D Sega Saturn Sonic game.

I'm just looking out for you on this one. If you don't get it right, Segata Sanshiro will be around to kick your ass when you least expect it. And then he'll make you play Sega Saturn.

Actually I was thinking of using Knuckles Chaotix sprites for Knuckles, and then making Chaotix-style sprites for Sonic, Tails, and maybe Amy.

If the game feels like a Rush or an Advance game, then you're doing something wrong.

Oh, don't worry, it's absolutely nothing like that. What made me write that was reading criticism of Sonic 4's level design, and while Sonic 4 isn't SPEEDSPEEDSPEED like Advance 2, I read something like "every zone feels the same", which I want to avoid.

(and what's wrong with Sonic Advance 1's level design? That game had classic physics!)

[MegaDash]

Classic physics != good design

[Chaos Rush]

Proof that I'm willing to take suggestions .

[MegaDash]

It's a start.

[luksamuk]

[qimg]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9282/62529524.png[/qimg]

Proof that I'm willing to take suggestions .

Amazing

Yeh, you palmtrees really look sexy. But your stone walls look a bit like plastic... and you should put them (as I noticed that they are two) a bit more next so they could seem like one.

[LeroyTH]

Screens looks very lol!

P.S. I think sprites for bridges must be like this:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6508/bridged.png

[OverbounD]

Ah another classic style fg I never get tired of these maybe because we have yet to see a completed one. Overall the graphics looks decent and I'm sure the physics will be too as you have proven yourself an exellent programmer.

A few nitpicks about the graphics now. The grass looks a bit flat I'd add another maybe lighter shade of green to that. The rocks look good too but I think they would look better if they were ligher and more brown. If you like the color you have you could try alternating colors in the rocks.

As for level design study classic maps. Draw your levels on graph paper first and don't worry if you have to redesign stages a few times. Also if you run out of design ideas as you draw try reversing some of the existing ones. Make sure there are spots that go right to left too. Actually reversing things helps with that too especially if you cannot think right to left.

[Hypersonic645]

Screens looks very lol!

P.S. I think sprites for bridges must be like this:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6508/bridged.png

"Must" be like that?

Sir, I think your tripping.

Hard.

[Chaos Rush]

Screens looks very lol!

P.S. I think sprites for bridges must be like this:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6508/bridged.png

I am a brutally honest person. That looks like shit.

Ah another classic style fg I never get tired of these maybe because we have yet to see a completed one. Overall the graphics looks decent and I'm sure the physics will be too as you have proven yourself an exellent programmer.

Thanks, but I'm not exactly an excellent programmer lol, the physics are thanks to Damizean and RogueYoshi. I consider myself more of a graphics person

ANYWAYS

Hey...uh... any ideas for gimmicks that could be derived from a beach setting?

I came up with this one totally fail one where there's these mechanical palm trees that Eggman built, where it rotates, and you have to jump into it and jump out with timing. I actually fully implemented it (although a bit on the glitchy side), and decided, "Wow, this is the lamest gimmick ever".

(Oh, and I'm 99% sure I'm probably going to use Knuckles Chaotix style sprites. Pretend that this is a Sega 32X CD game, or a Sega Saturn game)

EDIT: I've decided I'm going to work on a waterfall-based gimmick, but I'll do my best to make it not like Labyrinth Zone's...

[Sparks]

Screens looks very lol!

P.S. I think sprites for bridges must be like this:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6508/bridged.png

Not really sure what you're getting at. The design?

[Strife]

For your Palmtree gimmick, perhaps you could change it to be a weight-powered spring of sorts. Sonic stands on the palm tree and it slowly sinks downwards up to a certain point, and the moment the player jumps, it hurls him into the air at a speed that's proportional to the level of sinking. (The mushroom springs in Christmas Time Heroes do this.)

That, or you could simply place hidden springs in the palm trees like in the first zone of Sonic Triple Trouble. :3

[MegaDash]

You could also turn them into badniks themselves. Sonic's never had to fight off or avoid a palm tree.

[Ristar]

I think you should have a bit like at the end of the first water level in Ristar.

You know.. tidal waves washing badniks up? or maybe a hurricane or something? You could make the wind push you forward or backward.

[Chaos Rush]

For your Palmtree gimmick, perhaps you could change it to be a weight-powered spring of sorts. Sonic stands on the palm tree and it slowly sinks downwards up to a certain point, and the moment the player jumps, it hurls him into the air at a speed that's proportional to the level of sinking. (The mushroom springs in Christmas Time Heroes do this.)

Yes! Thank you! You will be credited. Now I have at least 2 gimmicks, I think that's fair enough..

You could also turn them into badniks themselves. Sonic's never had to fight off or avoid a palm tree.

That gave me an idea to do something similar for a mini boss.

Anyways, I said I was going to make Chaotix-style sprites for the 32-bit feel.

Sonic is just an edit, Tails head is custom, and Knuckles is obviously from Chaotix.

Comments?

[OverbounD]

You should Shade Knuckle Sonic 3 sprite like Chaotix and use that.