Sonic 4 Thread

[DimensionWarped]

They said that about Sonic 2006 too.

SEGA is good at that. Some in the business would call it lying.

[luksamuk]

Erm...wasn't Sonic Unleashed originally meant to be Sonic Adventure 3 at one point?

Naah. Sonic Unleashed's gameplay has almost nothing compared with the Adventure style, besides the name in Japanese is "World Adventure". Different from 06, Sonic's moves are more flexible and faster.

[Snooky]

Sonic Unleashed has basically nothing in common with Sonic Adventure aside from having a storyline of some kind, a super sonic boss fight at the end, and um... I guess homing attack.

I think that's why they changed the name

I do agree with LH though that the moves are much less static in Unleashed. I could go on about how bad the gameplay in 06 is, but that would be trailing off topic

[Felik]

Mad Gear looks quite good and thanks GOD they didn't put any stupid gimmick into Act 2.

P.S. Mad Gear's Boss is just awesome.

[Aaron C-T]

I.. don't follow. o_O

Did you read my post at all, man, or just immediately respond?

Yeah because you've totally played the game, so you can totally give us confirmation how bad the physics might or might not be.

Sometimes all we've had to go off of for fangames here are videos and screens, and no one complains when judgement is passed then.

I'm saying that when SFGHQ members critique fangames by telling them which parts they like, what they don't, and how it could be changed I don't see anyone complaining on the grounds that we're "making a judgement based solely on videos and screenshots." Let's be serious here- for most of the year all we see around here are videos and screens. So why are you complaining about us doing the same thing to a professional game. Why is playing the game suddenly so important before we make a judgement when we do it pretty much right up until SAGE? I can't make this any clearer.

Guys, I've got a challenge for Sonic 4 haters.

Would you rather have Adventure 3 or Unleashed 2 or Sonic and the Black Knight in Space, or would you rather have Rush 3 in Retro style?

I thought so.

I want a game like the first Sonic Adventure with characters that I can select separately, a distinct world and decent story with nice levels that offer a fun experience. Or a legit Genesis sequel a la Megaman 9- not necessarily old school graphics, I'm fine with the current graphics but there's a lot of the player being tossed about by springs and dash panels and you can barely see in front of you, etc.

[Sparks]

Did you read my post at all, man, or just immediately respond?

I'm saying that when SFGHQ members critique fangames by telling them which parts they like, what they don't, and how it could be changed I don't see anyone complaining on the grounds that we're "making a judgement based solely on videos and screenshots." Let's be serious here- for most of the year all we see around here are videos and screens. So why are you complaining about us doing the same thing to a professional game. Why is playing the game suddenly so important before we make a judgement when we do it pretty much right up until SAGE? I can't make this any clearer.

I want a game like the first Sonic Adventure with characters that I can select separately, a distinct world and decent story with nice levels that offer a fun experience. Or a legit Genesis sequel a la Megaman 9- not necessarily old school graphics, I'm fine with the current graphics but there's a lot of the player being tossed about by springs and dash panels and you can barely see in front of you, etc.If you can't make it any clearer then I just flat out don't understand the way you word things well.

:V

[Aaron C-T]

The negative feedback in this thread is no different than the negative feedback given here, on SFGHQ, where everything shown is either a screenshot or a video. No one complains when we offer our opinions on fangames that don't have demos/releases yet- even though we haven't actually played them. What makes our negative attitudes toward the Sonic 4 videos/screenshots any different?

[Sparks]

I more or less know what you're trying to say, I just don't give a shit about yesterdays argument.

[Aaron C-T]

::editedforselfcensorship::

What was the name of the last level that was leaked? Don't post a link- just a name, as I can't find it on Kotaku.

[OverbounD]

Guys, I've got a challenge for Sonic 4 haters.

Would you rather have Adventure 3 or Unleashed 2 or Sonic and the Black Knight in Space, or would you rather have Rush 3 in Retro style?

I thought so.

Yes I would unless they redo Sonic 4 like they did Megaman 9. I'd be very happy if they made a decent SA3. But the name of the game really isn't what is important Toaster its the quality. I'm convinced the quality of this game is going to blow compared to the genesis classics.

[Rawr]

I don't think it matters if we got a Sonic Adventure 3 or not. People were asking for years for a return like Sonic 4 and people complain about what they get, Sonic Adventure 3 would be no different. I think in a nutshell trying to go back to something that has now gotten a nostalgia factor involved with it is basically dooming itself to be a failure for a lot of people because it won't ever match the memories people had playing said game when they were younger. I'm not going to debate over whether or not the complaints are valid since they are just a reflection on peoples opinions and within the Sonic fandom I find that those arguments just go in circles, so I'll just put myself as neutral in that regard.

That said though, I personally am still looking forward to it. I like what I've seen, and its warranted for me to purchase it when it releases. So at least I can tell I will be satisfied and really my opinion is the only one that matters to me concerning video games since its my cash I'll be putting down on it, not anyone elses.

[OverbounD]

I don't think it matters if we got a Sonic Adventure 3 or not. People were asking for years for a return like Sonic 4 and people complain about what they get, Sonic Adventure 3 would be no different. I think in a nutshell trying to go back to something that has now gotten a nostalgia factor involved with it is basically dooming itself to be a failure for a lot of people because it won't ever match the memories people had playing said game when they were younger.

How can you say that with the success of Megaman 9? What I don't understand here is that you act as if because its got the name Sonic 4 its exactly what we wanted. This Sonic 4 has more in common with the advance series than the classics. In fact it would probably be more accurate to call this game Sonic Advance 4.

What if they called Sonic 2006 Sonic 4 would that game be any better?

Anyway the point is the name isn't what makes a game its the content and the content isn't there.

Here's the reality:

Name +

Level Design -

Only 4 levels -

Reused Badniks -

But because the NAME is right I'm supposed to be happy. They should have called it "best Fucking Sonic game Ever" then we'd all be holding hands and singing kumbaya, right?

[DimensionWarped]

I don't think it matters if we got a Sonic Adventure 3 or not. People were asking for years for a return like Sonic 4 and people complain about what they get, Sonic Adventure 3 would be no different. I think in a nutshell trying to go back to something that has now gotten a nostalgia factor involved with it is basically dooming itself to be a failure for a lot of people because it won't ever match the memories people had playing said game when they were younger. I'm not going to debate over whether or not the complaints are valid since they are just a reflection on peoples opinions and within the Sonic fandom I find that those arguments just go in circles, so I'll just put myself as neutral in that regard.

That said though, I personally am still looking forward to it. I like what I've seen, and its warranted for me to purchase it when it releases. So at least I can tell I will be satisfied and really my opinion is the only one that matters to me concerning video games since its my cash I'll be putting down on it, not anyone elses.

People wouldn't complain (that is to say, the people who are complaining now) if they chose to be faithful to the source material instead of simply ripping its content and throwing it into a new engine with new visuals.

[Sparks]

::editedforselfcensorship::

What was the name of the last level that was leaked? Don't post a link- just a name, as I can't find it on Kotaku.

The latest one leaked was Mad Gear Zone.

man that gear is mad

[Rawr]

How can you say that with the success of Megaman 9? What I don't understand here is that you act as if because its got the name Sonic 4 its exactly what we wanted.

...

But because the NAME is right I'm supposed to be happy. They should have called it "best Fucking Sonic game Ever" then we'd all be holding hands and singing kumbaya, right?

Okay, I knew I shouldn't have said complain. If you noticed I wasn't attacking anybody over their complaints about Sonic 4, I was making a different point and obviously it got lost somewhere along the way. I even said I wasn't going to argue the validity of the complaints because its all down to opinion. Where you guys see Sonic Advance 4, I see Sonic 4, and thats why I don't try and argue that because I'm not going to try and change your opinion. However, you don't need to be so hostile over a video game, seriously.

My point is that we get a Sonic 4 and it doesn't live up to the expectations that many hold for it. If we were to get Sonic Adventure 3, it would not live up to the expectations that people have for it. By now, because its been so long that we've been hoping for it and the Sonic series has drastically departed from its formula for many years, that its almost impossible to please people because many people have a concrete idea in their head on what the series should be like. You've also got the classic fans and the modern fans and SEGA would not want to completely cut the modern influence out of the series because thats their biggest market. My point is that they are not going to ever probably truly go back to Sonics roots and create the true Sonic 4 that the majority wants, and the same thing would happen with Sonic Adventure 3. I'm not saying you guys who dislike this game are wrong since I can certainly see why you guys have complaints for it.

As for the Megaman 9 example, thats because Capcom never really deviated all too much from the Megaman formula and they've never really 'lost it'. Sonic's formula seems to change with every new line of games and they haven't done a game with the classic formula since the Genesis days and they've lost their touch.

Personally I'm fine with how Sonic 4 looks though, and even if it is a Sonic Advance 4 at least to me Sonic 4 looks like it has more in common with the first Sonic Advance if we are to compare to any of them, and that one was a great game imo.

[OverbounD]

My point is this, fans of current Sonic have Sonic Unleashed and the Rush games. No doubt they are working on games like those even if nothing has been announced. Fan just expect this is going to happen and that's great if you like those games. They've been making those games for years and will continue to.

But us fans of the genesis game haven't had a game to our liking in many many years. When we finally get something that look somewhat promising it turns out to be half rehash half sonic advance.

So while you can never make everyone happy with one game, I feel like they could with a few games aim at different audiences. I thought that's what they were doing with Sonic 4 and maybe that's what they are trying to do. However the attempt is just so poor and rehashed I feel cheated.

The Megaman games pretty much have something for everyone. This is a list of the Megaman series from Wikipedia

* Mega Man (Rockman) (1987)

* Mega Man X (Rockman X) (1993)

* Mega Man Legends (Rockman DASH) (1997)

* Mega Man Battle Network (Rockman.EXE) (2001)

* Mega Man Zero (Rockman Zero) (2002)

* Mega Man ZX (Rockman ZX) (2006)

* Mega Man Star Force (Shooting Star Rockman) (2006)

They are working with a lot of different games for a lot of different audiences. Where as with Sonic games for the past 10 years we've had basically the same new kind of Sonic, too fast, no gimmicks, and lots of lame flurries. Sonic Advance 4 doesn't do near enough to change that for me for all the reasons I've already mentioned.

[Rawr]

The only ones on that list that deviated from the classic formula too much were Legends, Battle Network, and Star Force. People are sick of Battle Network and Star Force though, and Legends never got past its third iteration despite people wanting it. ZX can arguably be considered a dramatic change from the formula, but its still on a 2D Plane and the basic gameplay is still the same, but with new elements. The Megaman gameplay hasn't really evolved too much since Megaman X, as it was proven to be fun and it worked. When they tried different things with those series (X7 for example) it bombed. Though Command Mission imo was a fun RPG I guess.

I am not going to deny though that Capcom knows the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' sort of motto and thats why they are one of my favourite companies. I do understand your disappointment with Sonic 4, and I'm not trying to downplay anyone who dislikes this game since I can understand why it would be a letdown. I guess its because I'm a fan of both the classics and the modern titles that I see Sonic 4 in a different light. I'd say I'm more of a fan of the classic titles, Sonic 3&Knuckles is one of my favourite games of all time. But Sonic 4 isn't going to completely alienate the modern fanbase no matter how much anyone really wants them too, its too big of a source of profit.

That said, I do hope Episode 2 is more inventive. While I am fine with Episode 1 having a lot of rehashed elements in it, since I feel it introduces these modern fans to elements that we enjoyed in previous games, I hope that they have more originality with episode 2. If it doesn't, then I'll probably be a little disappointed.

[FanGameRevolver]

there's a spot in a zone 4 act 1 video where sonic is standing almost completely sideways...It looks just like the same glitch from rush. Although it doesn't really bother myself too much, the zone looks awesome! Loving the level specific gimmicks and such, sure none of its groundbreakingly new stuff, but it looks like a lot of fun.

one thing I dislike is how the floating enemies...appear in every zone it seems...it was cool in zone 1 but now its just boring repetition.

the special stage looks nauseating as hell.

[Rawr]

Yeah, the whole-screen rotating bits look a little odd. I guess I won't know until I try it myself on my TV, but it looks like it might be too sensitive or the player just likes to push the wrong triggers a lot. One of the two haha.

[Sparks]

The whole game got leaked.

That cliffhanger.

THAT.

CLIFFHANGER. FFFFFFFFFF-

[DimensionWarped]

Mmmmm, Boss Rush. I like a good boss rush. It's a little underwhelming with only four bosses that get repeated, but hey, boss rush is boss rush.

Boss Concepts

1. You all know the first.

2. It's pretty much Casino Night's Boss complete with the banked arena, bumpers, etc. It's a lot less frantic though.

3. Mostly borrows its concept from Final Zone.

4. It's the metropolis zone boss in terms of inspiration for attacks and design, but it plays more like a Sonic Advance 2 boss. It's a chase while you try to beat up Robotnik while at the same time avoiding the random crap he drops on you. It's actually pretty funny and the presentation is pretty damn good.

5. Final Boss is... Giant Robot from Sonic 2. A little disappointing. Here are the distinctions:

1. It's a lot easier. You can combo homing attacks against it and its practical invulnerability (you know, because his hands are in the way or because he's just really hard to approach) is a lot less frequent. Add to that, you can have rings.

2. It's a loooot easier. You know that hand throwing attack of total devastation? Well now you can just jump into the hand and it'll fly into Robotnik and put him in a prone position.

3. To compensate for how easy it is to hit, they boosted the amount of health it had to around 30 bonks or so.

4. Desperation attacks - Running around wildly and... doing I don't even know what. Nothing too daunting though.

All in all it's not a attempt at reimagining the boss. But it's more similar to its source material than say the Metropolis Zone recycle.

There's little that makes me more nostalgic than seeing Robotnik beat Sonic in a foot race.

By the way, I dislike Metal Sonic. By far the most annoying Robot Sonic clone, largely because he broke the precedent of each game getting a new one. I liked the natural progression of Sonic 2's being clunky but defensive and powerful to Sonic and Knuckles being more agile, but weaker and with a testy personality. I'd rather be seeing them making a new metal Sonic...

Of course then all the whiny 'new characters suck' bitches making their spiel.

[Rawr]

I have yet to see this video, and I cannot find a link for it, but I bet SEGA is super pissed right now.

Edit:

Okay, that final zone is awesome. Can't go wrong with the boss rush. LOL at Eggman being the fastest thing alive though again

[DimensionWarped]

I've got to admit that the last level promoted my feelings of this game from highly pessimistic to mostly pessimistic about everything except the bosses not including the first.

[Ristar]

forgive me for not reading 90+ pages of stuff butohmygod! I just checked out a video of sonic and they put the swirly fast run thing in! I'm actually having one of the best days ever!

srsly though, it looks alright doesn't it? between sonic heroes and this, I know which I'd rather pay for.

[DimensionWarped]

I just checked out a video of sonic and they put the swirly fast run thing in! I'm actually having one of the best days ever!

Must be nice to be so easily put in a good mood.