Sonic RPG coming to NDS (SEGA + Bioware)

[wesker]

A new Sonic game for the DS? I'll buy it.

[DimensionWarped]

DW, the fact that the LAST good Sonic was coincidentally the LAST Sonic game also made has nothing to do with quality.

Oh, of course, that makes perfect sense. A game being good has nothing to do with its quality. How silly of me.

While I do confess that Sonic stayed its downhill course after its first lackluster release (was that SA1 or SA2? SA1 seemed to be popular, but I thought it played and handled like garbage) it does not mean that a good release will set the tone for the blue dude either. Also bare in mind that this game makes heavy use of the wiimote (obviously) which actually means many of the game play flaws found in other Sonic games can be eliminated or improved on. Sonic Nextgen preceded Wildfire by only 4 or 5 months and it was a piece of ass pudding.

Let me tell you a story.

SEGA was making Sonic Nextgen with a bunch of mainstream technologies that their programmers thought were cool, but they were nothing really but goodies that could have gone into a brilliant game for atmosphere. Then they found out that Nintendo was taking a completely different direction and that they couldn't really port this game to that console anyway... which is sad since thats currently where Sonic games have the highest attach rate. Thats why they split the team in a million directions and quickly scrambled to put something better on the Nintendo platform where Sonic actually had a chance to sale well. They never really found out why it was that they licensed Havok, so they made gravity gun the hedgehog and using what little remained of their team tried to salvage the project as best as they could. Thats why Sonic Next is bad. Its not like it was disappointing because thats what it set out to be.

I don't fault you for disagreeing, but Sonic has nothing left for me in terms of "Could I give a shit?"-ness. Wildfire was fun, but it was hardly redeeming, imo.

Where is this notion coming from that the series needs to be redeemed? Yeah, you had Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Next... so what? These games were shovelware... but there were only three of them. Its time to move on. They are old news now... just as Sonic of old can't redeem the new, that old new has no bearing on the new new.

[Guest Roy]

Oh, of course, that makes perfect sense. A game being good has nothing to do with its quality. How silly of me.

Don't whip out the smartass card on me, DW-- I was speaking with regard to the longterm. One good game after a series of flops does not instantly mean "all the games released from now on will be super sweet"-- it means it's a step in the right direction.

Let me tell you a story.

SEGA was making Sonic Nextgen with a bunch of mainstream technologies that their programmers thought were cool, but they were nothing really but goodies that could have gone into a brilliant game for atmosphere. Then they found out that Nintendo was taking a completely different direction and that they couldn't really port this game to that console anyway... which is sad since thats currently where Sonic games have the highest attach rate. Thats why they split the team in a million directions and quickly scrambled to put something better on the Nintendo platform where Sonic actually had a chance to sale well. They never really found out why it was that they licensed Havok, so they made gravity gun the hedgehog and using what little remained of their team tried to salvage the project as best as they could. Thats why Sonic Next is bad. Its not like it was disappointing because thats what it set out to be.

How does that explain the other shitty releases then?

Oh, and awesome, so they just released a shitty, half-assed game instead of simply pushing the release date forward or shelfing it until they could invest the effort it deserved?

Where is this notion coming from that the series needs to be redeemed? Yeah, you had Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Next... so what? These games were shovelware... but there were only three of them. Its time to move on. They are old news now... just as Sonic of old can't redeem the new, that old new has no bearing on the new new.

Where is the notion NOT coming from? You can take that idea of anti-retroactive bearing to the grave if you want, but there's a little something in all forms of a legacy called integrity and reputation-- a lot of people don't expect shit out of Sonic games now because they've designed them with so little attention paid to quality. The number of criticisms I've seen made by people about the franchise dying is overwhelming. Heroes, Shadow, and Nextgen were not the only garbage games. Far as I'm concerned, every GBA iteration of the series was gladly-burnt fuel for the coal engine. Neither SA1 nor SA2, in retrospect, are great either; SA2 gets some leeway thanks to its overwhelmingly number of things to do outside the main storyline. The emblem collecting was frustrating, but I confess it kept me busy for a month or so.

Regardless, there were a whopping 4 Sonic games on the Genesis straight from Sonic Team-- and they were AWESOME. However, every game to be released since then has been god awful. Some will disagree, and they are damn well entitled to, just as I disagree with them, but the Sonic franchise really has some explaining to do one way or another.

[DimensionWarped]

Oh, and awesome, so they just released a shitty, half-assed game instead of simply pushing the release date forward or shelfing it until they could invest the effort it deserved.

Licenses like those for Havok and Renderware often have time releases and licensing forbids you from using an old platform, so in a sense, the work would be completely wasted if they "shelved it" and came back to it later. It was a very hectic time you know, what with Naka abdicating, management being crazy, and in the case of Sammy, the Pachinko fad dying... which happened to be one of the big things that facilitated their purchase of SEGA in the first place. They couldn't really afford to just say "Oh, this isn't working out right, let's put it on hold until we are more organized". Thats not how business works.

Anyway, those criticisms tend to be made by idiots who don't actually understand games or what makes them fun in the first place. There are few people out there who look at the games objectively enough even to tell a bad game from a good game and what you end up with is mixed messages pulling the company in twain. No one really seems to get it and the elite few who do are smothered out by all the trash out there with some kind of Magazine publication pedigree. Its pathetic really.

To answer your question, games are standalone things. The very concept of franchise legacy is counterproductive to franchise improvement in the first place. Why bother when you can get rich churning out crap? Thats why everyone should just sit down and judge games on a one to one basis.

Problem is, SEGA isn't seeing the sales on Sonic that they were a few years ago. Sonic Next sold worse than Shadow the Hedgehog which sold worse than Heroes which sold worse than SA2 which sold worse than SA. Its been getting lower. You know what I was really disagreeing with you about in the first place? I was disagreeing about the franchise being not being supported by the fans. When we were kids, we had to have a reason to start caring about the franchise in the first place you know.

Also, there is no Sonic Team. Thats all I have to say.

PS: You are going every which way with that argument. It seems you liked SA2 enough to warrant hunting for emblems over the course of a month and you like SSR, but every entry after Sonic and Knuckles was apparently also simultaneously "god awful".

[Khorney]

did bioware make those actiony console BauldersG's? i so it might be like them

[Aaron C-T]

Listening to DW talk, I think I may have been looking at this the wrong way. "Sonic Team" actually is fulfilling their promise, I suppose, since every project so far is outsourced. And since they're sales have been getting lower with each and every game and with some of that stressing stuff now over with, perhaps we'll see some crazy-good stuff from their next "main" game, whenever that may be.

"DW, the fact that the LAST good Sonic was coincidentally the LAST Sonic game also made has nothing to do with quality."

No, apparently it does having something to do with time otherwise SA2 wouldn't catch as much slack as it does. Afterall, you just compared SA to SA2 and said that it "played and handled." You prefer SA2, yet that game took the crappy sense of play given to Knuckles and just doubled it. Then, rather than giving fans a Tails like in the old days (no racing) they swapped him out for E-102 and doubled it. Yet you just gave them all sorts of slack because they're first try had some problems (that are of course not seen in the following title and perpetuated).

"Better than boycotting and them still getting sales because of dim-witted kids, I spose."

See, that's what I don't understand. Why's it better? Apparently, if it's so hard to stop buying their games or you're still finding reasons as to why you should, you don't dislike the games nearly as much as you say you do. People don't just go out and buy products they think are crap over and over again. It may just be something about the way you're phrasing it or the way I'm reading it but it definitely sounds like "boycotting isn't going to work, so I'll just play crappy games anyway because it's totally pointless." Sending them a letter, believe it or not, has been suggested- but no one cared. I'm not sure why that's somehow "better" than not buying games you hate in the first place, but whatever you say.

[DimensionWarped]

did bioware make those actiony console BauldersG's? i so it might be like them

Actually, that was Interplay, their publisher for BGI and II

BG1 and II were published under the black isle studios name and so some of the staff is more or less split among Interplay and Bioware.

Black Isle/Interplay is also known for the fallout series.

[Carl Winslow]

Black Isle/Interplay is also known for the fallout series.

Which is getting a sequel under Bethesda.

Now, here's something comparable. Fallout 3 being done by Bethesda, and a Sonic RPG done by Bioware. both are extremely questionable, but both have proven themselves capable.

The issue?

Sonic hasn't exactly been a salvageable franchise as of late. The lack of ingenuity in the series overall leaves this to be a stagnant idea developed for milking a franchise. Again. It's very hard to trust that.

Whereas Bethesda wants to bring a franchise back that has really needed rekindling. a franchise that has had very powerful hold and is quite perfect for an Oblivion psuedo-turn-based game. you aren't left with a huge worry about it's planning and development.

just putting things in perspective.

[MaxSonic]

I've compiled a list of the IGN and Gamespot scores on every Sonic game since Heroes. Here's how this list works:

Name/IGN Score/Gamespot Score

Sonic Heroes/8/7.5

Sonic Riders/6.2/6.6

Sonic Rivals/7.4/6.9

Sonic Rush/9/8.2

Sonic Advance/9.1/7.9

Sonic Advance 2/9/8.2

Sonic Advance 3/9/8.4

Sonic Battle/8/7.7

Sonic Mega Collection/7.5/7.5

Sonic 360/4.8/4.3

Sonic Wii/6.9/7.6

Sonic Pinball Party/8.3

Sonic Gems/7.5/6.3

Sonic Genesis/None/2.5

Shadow The Hedgehog/4.9/4.8

So according to this, Heroes kicks ass and most of the advance games kick ass. And for the most part, I agree with thier reviews. Sure, Sonic has had a few crappy games recently. But come on guys. Secret Rings was a step in the right direction, and we still have the portable games to look forward to. You guys look at a game and say "You die too easily" or "The level design sucks", and completely dismiss the entire game. So okay, a Sonic RPG might not be the greatest idea in the world, but it could work. What if it's like Sonic Adventure or Sonic Battle?

[DimensionWarped]

The issue?

Sonic hasn't exactly been a salvageable franchise as of late. The lack of ingenuity in the series overall leaves this to be a stagnant idea developed for milking a franchise. Again. It's very hard to trust that.

Whereas Bethesda wants to bring a franchise back that has really needed rekindling. a franchise that has had very powerful hold and is quite perfect for an Oblivion psuedo-turn-based game. you aren't left with a huge worry about it's planning and development.

just putting things in perspective.

What a delightfully bullshit perspective. Sonic hasn't been salvageable as of late? What the hell does that even mean? You honestly think that a couple bad games makes it more difficult to make a good game? If anything, it lowers the standards you are expected to live up to making a good game better. As for the elements to make an RPG from within the series, who said Bioware had to use the current Sonic story at all? Who said Bioware had to adhere to some bullshit plot that was made up by SEGA? Hell, even SEGA is trying to stay away from their own plotlines now if Sonic and the Secret Rings is any indication. Super Mario RPG didn't even remotely seem related to the main Mario games when it came to story, so why should this be any different?

Stagnant idea you say? Its never been done before. Sure, a Mario RPG has been done before, but I digress, Sonic is not Mario.

And whats this concept of an "Oblivion pseudo-turn based game"? Nothing about Oblivion is even remotely turn based.

Bioware understands their style of RPG game and its very niche. They are story geniuses who won't stoop to fucking something up just to adhere to some zany SEGA plot made for 4 year olds.

@Max Sonic: Level design is the most important aspect of any true Sonic game. You are damn right I'll dismiss Heroes just because the level design sucks.

[Aaron C-T]

More valid points from DW.. I think he's on a roll.

"Secret Rings was a step in the right direction, and we still have the portable games to look forward to."

Secret Rings was a game that, like a lot of Wii games, was like 'hey, we've got an innovative controller let's use it.' If you were to take away the Wiimote and replace it with the X360's there'd of been lots of complaints about how it was too straight-forward, etc, etc, etc.

[Guest Roy]

Licenses like those for Havok and Renderware often have time releases and licensing forbids you from using an old platform, so in a sense, the work would be completely wasted if they "shelved it" and came back to it later. It was a very hectic time you know, what with Naka abdicating, management being crazy, and in the case of Sammy, the Pachinko fad dying... which happened to be one of the big things that facilitated their purchase of SEGA in the first place. They couldn't really afford to just say "Oh, this isn't working out right, let's put it on hold until we are more organized". Thats not how business works.

Anyway, those criticisms tend to be made by idiots who don't actually understand games or what makes them fun in the first place. There are few people out there who look at the games objectively enough even to tell a bad game from a good game and what you end up with is mixed messages pulling the company in twain. No one really seems to get it and the elite few who do are smothered out by all the trash out there with some kind of Magazine publication pedigree. Its pathetic really.

To answer your question, games are standalone things. The very concept of franchise legacy is counterproductive to franchise improvement in the first place. Why bother when you can get rich churning out crap? Thats why everyone should just sit down and judge games on a one to one basis.

Problem is, SEGA isn't seeing the sales on Sonic that they were a few years ago. Sonic Next sold worse than Shadow the Hedgehog which sold worse than Heroes which sold worse than SA2 which sold worse than SA. Its been getting lower. You know what I was really disagreeing with you about in the first place? I was disagreeing about the franchise being not being supported by the fans. When we were kids, we had to have a reason to start caring about the franchise in the first place you know.

Also, there is no Sonic Team. Thats all I have to say.

PS: You are going every which way with that argument. It seems you liked SA2 enough to warrant hunting for emblems over the course of a month and you like SSR, but every entry after Sonic and Knuckles was apparently also simultaneously "god awful".

There is no Sonic Team ANYMORE. Anyway,

Working in a family-owned business, I've got a pretty good idea of how business does work. I'm not using that as a "trump-card" or an excuse for me to go sounding arrogant, but I've got a grasp on things. The gaming business does not operate the way retail does or the way manufacturing does, it's totally different, though the core ethics remain. In either case, continuing on a project amidst chaos is something that occurs in a business, no doubt. I'll retract my previous argument and concede to that-- what you are neglecting though is that that should not reflect the final product of something.

My mom owns a labeling business, and God FORBID she should ever print labels with a machine that uses the wrong toner, or sheet them when the machine goes awry and cuts at the wrong threshold on the label, or when the press malfunctions to the point that labels are actually becoming glued to it. Time constraints and burdensome problems are not excuses for faulty products-- you're giving SEGA leeway for the wrong reasons; they are a business and should work around their own issues. If they were newcomers, it'd be understandable, but people still would avoid their products. In this case, they've been around for sometime, yet they still release this crap? This isn't like getting a DoA piece of hardware from ABIT or ASUS to you and you call the company and get a replacement-- this is a game that plays like a nightmare.

Pushing beyond your limits and working your ass off is how businesses make it, not by having customers or buyers who are willing to forgive them at every screw up or disappointment. It's not like I had a decisive opinion after the first shitty Sonic game came out (SA1)-- hell no, I've loved Sonic since I was 5. However, then SA2 came out, and it was iffy, but even then I still stuck by them. Also on that note, please don't take what I say into "selective context". I did not call SA2 a good game because it had the emblem hunting, I simply cut it some slack because there was a VERY large replay factor outside the main storyline. Additionally, it had varying game play modes-- this is arguably one of the things that was hated most about the game, yes, but Scatta, you can't take the fact that you hated that about the game and use it to make my argument sound null (and where did the remark about SSR even come from, DW?). Also, I said that it did NOT play or handle well, not that it did. SA2's handling was worse than SA1. My point is that SA2 was not a total piece of shit, so it gave me confidence. Of course, here I am now, after every GBA release and after Heroes, Shadow, and Nextgen, and I just don't even have hope anymore.

I've played every kind of game there is to be played, and every time I come back to Sonic it's just like, "wow, get your fucking act together". I know good games from the bad, and I've suffered through games that were terrible just hoping they'd get better. You guys fault me for being too hard on the franchise, but honest to God with as many games out there that can be played that rock so awesomely, and then to come back to Sonic and realize it's still using it's crappy movement handling and loop-de-loop pathing, how can it not make you sick? I'm not saying EVERY Sonic game released will always suck, but that the franchise has given itself a negative reputation over the last few years, so judging games in a precognitive fashion is bound to happen. It doesn't mean I won't play the game though, that simply wouldn't be fair.

I rent EVERY Sonic game in the hope it will get better, I haven't abandoned the series altogether-- give me some slack, DW. I am hard on the series, but I give each new game a try hoping it will get better and judge it independently. My attitude for Nextgen was that it would rock since they had new technology at their fingertips, and it was a disappointment. Wild Fire surprised me pleasantly, and I hope SEGA will keep on with that model. Though, all the same, I will go back to my previous statement about not giving a shit-- if the series died with the next release, I would shrug it off and move on.

On a non-argumentative note, I would like to see a link where you found those sales figures, DW. Not because I don't believe you have them, but rather because I am genuinely curious. Could have fooled me that Sonic games were selling fewer and fewer with the way they wind that diabolical mechanism that just produces the same crap. My figuring for their recent binge of ruination in the games came from kids buying them up-- the games only have to play so well. Lets not forget that Sonic and co are still very affable characters for children.

[DimensionWarped]

I'm mostly judging it on Wikipedia's best selling games list and the fact that Next Gen didn't break 1,000,000 or reach the Xbox 360 best selling charts.

Whereas Shadow the Hedgehog did... for its consoles I mean.

And dude, there was never a Sonic team. Never. They came together for Sonic the Hedgehog then immediately disbanded afterwards. Few of those people did Sonic 2, fewer still did Sonic 3. By Sonic Adventure you didn't have any of the same people doing anything and by Sonic Adventure 2 everything had changed again.

Anyway, I really see nothing to respond to in your argument. Its all hyperbole interspliced with bits of nonsense.

One final point of reference... I don't care how much you dislike the games that are out or for what reasons. Thats no reason to be pessimistic over a game being developed by a proven company that has never really done anything bad in the past.

[Guest Roy]

Anyway, I really see nothing to respond to in your argument. Its all hyperbole interspliced with bits of nonsense.

Actually it's all experience inter spliced with opinions and personal insight, but whatever you gotta say to save face.

[DimensionWarped]

Experience my foot. You are just complaining about games made by the most disorganized group on the face of the planet and a bunch of spinoffs.

[Carl Winslow]

What a delightfully bullshit perspective. Sonic hasn't been salvageable as of late? What the hell does that even mean? You honestly think that a couple bad games makes it more difficult to make a good game? If anything, it lowers the standards you are expected to live up to making a good game better. As for the elements to make an RPG from within the series, who said Bioware had to use the current Sonic story at all? Who said Bioware had to adhere to some bullshit plot that was made up by SEGA? Hell, even SEGA is trying to stay away from their own plotlines now if Sonic and the Secret Rings is any indication. Super Mario RPG didn't even remotely seem related to the main Mario games when it came to story, so why should this be any different?

It's different because the series is quite possibly the most convoluted creations of all time. there are atleast 15 different stories, and none of which adhere to the other in any way. they have to draw atleast SOME inspiration, but where the hell could you possibly begin, right?

Stagnant idea you say? Its never been done before. Sure, a Mario RPG has been done before, but I digress, Sonic is not Mario. You honestly think that a couple bad games makes it more difficult to make a good game? If anything, it lowers the standards you are expected to live up to making a good game better. As for the elements to make an RPG from within the series, who said Bioware had to use the current Sonic story at all? Who said Bioware had to adhere to some bullshit plot that was made up by SEGA? Hell, even SEGA is trying to stay away from their own plotlines now if Sonic and the Secret Rings is any indication. Super Mario RPG didn't even remotely seem related to the main Mario games when it came to story, so why should this be any different?

We've seen countless variations on the idea by fans. I think it's safe to say it's been done, and each time people bitch because it's an RPG.

It's different because the series is quite possibly the most convoluted creations of all time. there are atleast 15 different stories, and none of which adhere to the other in any way. they have to draw atleast SOME inspiration, but where the hell could you possibly begin, right?

And whats this concept of an "Oblivion pseudo-turn based game"? Nothing about Oblivion is even remotely turn based.

Fallout 3 is based alot on strategy and less on twitch gameplay that is associated with Oblivion. the basic idea is, you can run things from a strategic turn based perspective, or you can go into realtime when you really need to. however, the game penalizes for overusing the realtime system by making action points rejuvenate at a slower rate. thusly pseudo-turn-based.

Bioware understands their style of RPG game and its very niche. They are story geniuses who won't stoop to fucking something up just to adhere to some zany SEGA plot made for 4 year olds.

And how can you be so sure they WON'T do that?

[Guest Roy]

Experience my foot. You are just complaining about games made by the most disorganized group on the face of the planet and a bunch of spinoffs.

Experience? Yes. Experience in business and in playing the games, which I utilized to form my argument. Spinoffs? Perhaps. SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Nextgen, Riders, Sonic GBA 1-3, Pinball Party-- many of those are spinoffs, granted, but they were not designed by a third party and all sucked balls as far as I care. And honestly, DW, complaining? You're griping about my alleged griping. You are some piece of work.

And yes, they are the most disorganized group on the planet. Hence why their games have been sucking ass.

[DimensionWarped]

Whatever. Its no wonder you guys don't enjoy the games when you demand failure from the get-go.

[duckythemutant]

Alright, now, listen up. Here's a story about a little guy that lives in a blue world. And all day and all night and probably just about everything he sees is just blue like him. Like… inside AND outside. His name is Sonic, and by the way, I made that intro up. Sonic came out to the Nintendo era and taught people variety, competition, and speed. Bring raised by a mom and dad who played Mario 3 while I was trying to move my numb little baby legs, Sonic was first introduced to me when I moved to the U.S. when I was four. It was Sonic 2, and I thought it was kind of gay at first, but after a while I gained an attachment that stuck to me until I met the German chick… more about her later.

Admist the computer age, I came across a man named Webster. He was the first furry I saw, a black spider edited from a Sonic sprite. He had a website, Webster’s Webdom, which was primarily for hosting his animated Sonic GIFs (those were the shit back then, remember?). It was here where I found a partner, and he showed me the world of the Sonic online fandom. People making furries, fanfics, role playing… all based on their messiah, Sonic, who has been in hiatus since Sonic 3D blast.

Then, an entirely new era came in. Sonic Adventure comes out, and the Sonic we knew is gone. But this change felt good, because now it feels like Naka helped make Sonic “flexible” for new generations of players. Our protagonist is a rocker, Knuckles knows martial arts, a fuckin’ robot with feelings. It was just too cool. This was when the underground fandom started to grow heavily, and the people who used to be THIS:

Are now living their fantasies online with names like ThunderBliZz, Speedstah, and Hedgiewedgie449.

Then, your cousin arrives from up north. He’s a little crooked, but he’s got some really cool baseball cards. But most important of all, he’s family, and love him. His name is Sonic Adventure 2. Now, SA2 decides to really be flexible. They added a cast of new characters, different styles of gameplay, and a bunch of repetitious shit to do to unlock cool stuff. But all in all, you find out SA2 was only coming to visit for about two days, and the game’s biggest star (Sonic and newcomer Shadow) had very few levels, so you were stuck with mechs and treasure hunting most of the time. Overall, your cousin told you a few stories, and showed you some cool stuff, but it seemed like your cousin’s life was nothing BUT stories and cool doo-dads here an there.

I never saw Webster again after SA2. He left the fandom world… well, I DID talk to him about Spider-Man the movie since that was going to be released soon, but that was it. But hey, SA2 to Sonic was Shrek 3 to the Shrek series, right? It had some funny scenes and brought momentum to upcoming sequels, even though a crackpot Merlin switching a cat and a donkey’s body wasn’t exactly where we wanted the $8.50 to go. Will Shrek’s baby’s grow up and help Shrek and Fiona with Prince [insert Name] from [insert Action] with fairy god mother? Will Shadow come back and help Sonic and friends stop Dr. Eggman, or worse? (since Eggman seem to of gotten soft at the end of SA2)

Enter Eliza Schueller, a German hooker. Also known as Sonic Heroes, Eliza liked to experiment and bring kinkyness to your living room. The other day, she proposed a threesome, and although you liked to bring your attention to one person throughout the game, you thought “Hm, could be fun.” Not really. Stopping for Tails to get everyone in cheerleader positions to fly up one little cliff, or have knuckles turn his friends into fireballs to knock down a simple wall was not the Sonic game we wanted. Overall, Heroes was Eliza trying to do a threesome with you, and while trying to get the hang of it, you try anal and she poops on your penis. What are you left with? A game with empty promises (Team Chaotix, woot! Wait, detectives, what the fuck?), lame gameplay, laaaaaaarge levels that AREN’T fun, Team Rose, no replay value, bad final story, and poop on your penis.

That’s when I decided to back off. I mean, it was just so traumatizing, and there was nothing promising coming in the future. I mean, c’mon, Sonic Pinball Party?

This takes us back to the argument. Even though Sonic games are starting to deteriorate (I mean, seriously, Sonic fuckin’ Pinall Party?), the fandom is still to strong. It seriously has a life of it’s own, and if Sonic suddenly just disappeared, I assure you the fandom will keep growing even more. There is no Sonic Team, just a bunch of blind guys who keep trying to add “the stuff that worked” rather than doing extensive research and actually LOOK at the fandom community. I mean, think of genesis Sonic compared to nextgen Sonic. He ran through islands, met new friends, kicked eggman’s ass, and then with the help of his new friend Knuckles they work together to go into Eggmans top secret Death Egg (simple start to extremely complicated) and kicked Eggman’s 50-foot transformer. Nextgen Sonic says hi to tails, hi to knuckles, does random shit for people, runs slow, and all the elements that made Sonic levels fun (gaining momentum to run through rings or literally BLASTING your way through levels depending on your own individual game-playing skills is now done for you through the engine since Sonic’s intense gameplay hasn’t been completely synced to the 3D generation yet) are not present.

So what are we left with? Sonic Rivals 2.

[Guest Roy]

This post is a marvel of modern literature.

[DimensionWarped]

Someone explain to me what any of this has to do with Bioware making an RPG?

[Slingerland]

This thread is absolutely ridiculous.

PROP 21'd

The walls of text were cool for about a page, but I've seen these walls of text before.

@duckythemutant:

[Serephim]

"Sonic wasn't meant to be an RPG. This is gonna fail so hard."

Mario initially wasn't meant to be an RPG, but we all see how that turned out.

Yeah.

Nintendo and Squaresoft wasnt Sega and Sonic Team, was it.

EDIT:

LOL prop 21'ed before its even released. Man, Sega needs to kill off sonic forever.

[DimensionWarped]

Sereph, I don't think you remember what Prop 21 is. Shut. The fuck. Up.

Oh, and dipshit, this isn't SEGA and SonicTeam either. Its Bioware.

[MaxSonic]

lock this fukcing topic

now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prop 21