About damn time! Nintendo Partners with Gamespy for online multiplayer

[DimensionWarped]

@PG: That sounds like a copious waste of time.

[Pheonix Gamma]

I was young and had a lot of free time. But hell if it wasn't awesome when I saw Rapidash kill my friend's lv100 Blastoise in Stadium.

[Kain]

A Pokemon that had a battle system similar to FFXII's would be pretty cool. Since pokemon's fairly simple in terms of types and statuses, the sort of Gambit AI could work, with a few improvements here and there. You could have it where you have limited control over your party of pokemon, where the only orders you can give change their AI slightly (or perhaps change to a different AI set you constructed) or tell them to use a move on someone. It puts more emphasis on the training and tactics less on the leveling.

But that's the beauty of being a game maker (in a very limited sense): you get to try out your ideas and find out that, in actuallity, they were stupid all along.

[Aaron C-T]

"true, but then you ARE the Pokemon."

Wah? No, no you're not. You're just giving it commands. The -only- action you'd do that would sort of "make you the pokemon" would be when you jerked the controller left or right to dodge. Picking a command and having it unfold on-screen is pretty much what's already being done, and in the current games your not the Pokemon so I don't see how this would be any different. Let's say the computer player charges at you, you jerk the wiimote and the pokemon jumps right. Then you press the button for/select, let's say "Quick Attack" and your pokemon turns around and quick attacks the pokemon that just missed. It wouldn't really make you the pokemon as you're not actually doing the actions yourself- only choosing them. Granted, that's still pretty much turn-based but it probably wouldn't be nearly as boring and I'm sure things other than just dodging could be added.

[Kain]

Well, the point that I see being that you're trying to streamline the process chosing what move a pokemon does and when. But part of the imersion (or lack thereof in a way) of the pokemon series was that you were a trainer issuing commands that were not entirely in sync with your pokemon's movement.

I understand that the current system is a little linear and, say, in the pokemon cartoons, they will often shout out comands in direct reaction to the oponents' moves or one directly after another. A sort of quick-order would be a nice addition if you made it real-time, but you'd need to add a bit of delay and randomness in that if you tell him to counter-attack, if he's less trained or slower he might not get it through his head. You'd need to somehow disjoint your commands from the pokemon's actions if you wanted to keep the same trainer<->animal feel, IMO.

[Aaron C-T]

Well, the delay was a given. As far as the less trained/slower, I didn't even give that much thought but I suppose that'd have to be taken into account as well.

[SonicProject]

Battle Revolution isn't worth it. Diamond and Pearl are already capable of online play. All BR offers is that same experience in 3D with your own customizable avatar. It doesn't even have many of the single player modes that made the previous installments worth trying to begin with. *thumbs down*

As a fan of Pokemon Stadium, all I've gotta say is that I enjoy seeing the Pokemon on my team with full animation for a change. Customizable rules and multiplayer without having to buy another DS and another copy of the game. And if I'm not mistaken, you can actually battle someone without a friend code in PBR unlike Diamond/Pearl. But don't quote me on that. The customizable avatar is also a plus for online play.

Thank god Pokemon Battle Revolution didn't bring back the stupid purification shit that Colliseum soiled the series with. Maybe they can bring the "magic" of the 2D handheld games to 3D another day.

[Pheonix Gamma]

"true, but then you ARE the Pokemon."

Wah? No, no you're not. You're just giving it commands. The -only- action you'd do that would sort of "make you the pokemon" would be when you jerked the controller left or right to dodge. Picking a command and having it unfold on-screen is pretty much what's already being done, and in the current games your not the Pokemon so I don't see how this would be any different. Let's say the computer player charges at you, you jerk the wiimote and the pokemon jumps right. Then you press the button for/select, let's say "Quick Attack" and your pokemon turns around and quick attacks the pokemon that just missed. It wouldn't really make you the pokemon as you're not actually doing the actions yourself- only choosing them. Granted, that's still pretty much turn-based but it probably wouldn't be nearly as boring and I'm sure things other than just dodging could be added.

I jerk the remote to make it jump? Uh...that means I'm controlling the Pokemon right there. Then I select my attack and he does it. So basically I'm playing Mario and Luigi.

The thing about the Pokemon RPGs is that you don't have direct control of the Pokemon, you give them orders. Thus, adding a "dodge" button puts you in direct control. When you raise a chicken, then send it to a cockfight, you can't make the chicken jump at will (well, I suppose you could tie something to it so that when you press a button, a shock is sent to the chicken, causing it to freak out, but I doubt Gamefreak would incorperate anything like that >.>)

EDIT: Oh, and what Kain said.

So yea, you could make it real time, sure. But the Pokemon would have to think on its own when you aren't giving commands, or are in the middle of giving commands. In that case, perhaps FFXII's gambit system would fit. Actually, FFXII's entire combat would fit for Pokemon, sans the ability to make him move. So you have Vulpix (<3 Vulpix) running around on its own, following the gambits, then I want to inturrupt and tell it to use Fire Breath or whatever, then since the attack is strong, it'd have to breifly charge it up (not as long as the ATB bar in FFXII, but long enough so it can't just spam Fire Breath)

[VectorSatyr]

Rare candied pokemons kinda lose due to weakened stat buildup. Its the equivalent of catching a wild of the given level.

Heh heh... ever have the curiosity as to why that happens? Just look up "Pokemon EVs" for more info and be amazed.

@SonicProject: Lies - it still requires friend codes. :/

[Pheonix Gamma]

Friend Codes for every game

[Aaron C-T]

"Then I select my attack and he does it"

Isn't that how it normally works? You don't control it outside of selecting which action you wish be performed. For instance, if you obtained a pokemon on in a trade and it doesn't like you then it might not do what you told it to do or maybe it will, then the CPU goes. Honestly, dodging with a delay would defeat the point of dogding and there's nothing to say that that pokemon you just traded will actually listen to you and dodge, or that a sick pokemon will actually get out of the way fast enough. Even in the show, the pokemon attempt a dodge within a second after the trainer yells it so it's not like that one bit of direct control somehow automatically makes it real-time. It just means that you have control over that one, tiny aspect. It doesn't change the fact that everything else is turn-based.

[DimensionWarped]

Heh heh... ever have the curiosity as to why that happens? Just look up "Pokemon EVs" for more info and be amazed.

@SonicProject: Lies - it still requires friend codes. :/

If I recall, its because each stat has a buildup level that affects stat gains at level ups and the buildup levels aren't affected by rare candies.

[Serephim]

Consider the fact that you are the trainer. The trainer gives commands to the Pokemon, the Pokemon carry out those commands. Making it real time would mena either you have direct control of the Pokemon (which defeats the purpose of the concept) or the Pokemon would fight in real time, and you gave commands. The problem is with that is what the pokemon would do inbetween commands.

Hey Pikachu, use thunderbolt. Crap it's unaffective; gotta give another menu command. ::Pikachu continues Thunderbolt, which is useless, while the player plans his next move:: Uh oh, a Water Pokemon! Use thundebolt! Oh no! He ran out of thunderbolt because I tried to use strategy!

Turn-based just works for the series, and I'm sure they've tried other engine already.

Sorry, but i was thinking like the old Final Fantasy games.

By the time you got near the final boss, if you havent learned to think quicker and learn to orgnize your abilities, you would simply get ruined.

[Pheonix Gamma]

so then, ATB bar Pokemon? Eh...I can see that, but one on one battles in the ATB FFs were always kinda dull because the bar fills so slowly for both combatants. It totally works if you have a party of Pokemon out, but one on one kinda brings it back to standard turnbased battles, but slower.

FFXII has ATB, but the AI can fight on it's own too. So you've got this totally incapable Pokemon at the start of the game, then you battle, and slowly it gets smarter and it gets gambit slots as it gets smarter, and you can fill those slots so it can do something when you're not strategizing.

For instance, you meet a new pokemon, and it's water. After battling it, you get it added to the Pokedex. Now you can use one of Pikachu's slots and say "when that pokemon appears, use electric moves (or specific electirc moves.)

This gives the gamer real time battles, but gives the Pokemon a mind of its own, and still allows you, the trainer, to enter commands in the menu to override the gambits.

I think I'd still prefer the turnbased fighting, though, just cause it's Pokemon. Any other RPG, I'd probably bitch about it XP

[Serephim]

i Think something along the road of Scatta's idea would work fine.

Maybe have an option to be able to jerk the remote left or right to make it jump to the side to dodge an attack.

Basically, i would like to see them actully move around rather than stand in one position. Something along the lines of (yes, im using it again) FFX-2. The game was turn based, but the fights had a better sense of action to them because the characters never returned to a specific position. Unlike in FFX, where the character runs up and hits the enemy and returns to his fighting formation, the characters run up, hit the enemy, and maybe hop back a few feet. In instances where there were you were surrounded, or fighting a really huge scale monster, not having a position to return to made the fights look really awesome.

With Battle Revolution, i would rather see something like that be applied. Your time meter would be dependant on how fast your pokemon was. Your pokemon reacts to being hit, maybe jerking the remote to a direction is a command to tell the pokemon to dodge an incoming attack (which would basically act like your moving it a little bit with a small delay or something.). Maybe lifting the controller up vertically would be an instant command to try to block an attack, and jerking the controller up would be an instant command to parry or counter an attack.

That would also add depth to the game as well. Some attacks (lets say swift for example, that shoot the little star things randomly at the opponent) would take more than one jerk to dodge every hit. Different pokemon would dodge better (fighting classesm leaf classes, rat/cat/dog types, ect.), different pokemon would block better (psychic classes, rock classes, fire classes, ect.), and others would parry better (fighting classes, ect). Using your commands while giving them the command to use an attack would be key to winning.

Instead, we're stuck with boring, slow moving matches that are simply pressing a button and hoping it doesnt miss or hoping its effective.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Either way, Gamefreak won't change it up because the formula has worked for 10+ years >_>

tangent: http://www.oldeenglish.org/podcast/pokemon-day

EDIT: Dismal news: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=74177

[ila]

And well it is a damn good formula. I still play to this day.

[VectorSatyr]

If I recall, its because each stat has a buildup level that affects stat gains at level ups and the buildup levels aren't affected by rare candies.

Bingo. At least people are semi-aware of it.

Instead, we're stuck with boring, slow moving matches that are simply pressing a button and hoping it doesnt miss or hoping its effective.

What? BORING? People have high-paced tournaments over this shit. It's anything but boring when you're playing at that level. :/

[Aaron C-T]

They also have yo-yo tournaments where people string 15 different, 5-step tricks in one fling but the average person isn't able to do that. So...

At any rate, after 10+ games turn-based may still work but it's getting dull, imo at least. Especially when the show has a much faster pace that, at least in the 3D games, should probably be reflected in the game. Colliseum can get incredibly dull incredibly fast, and a faster engine would easily solve that.

[Pheonix Gamma]

Well the last one I played was Stadium, and the last true RPG was Yellow, so for me, I'm kinda tempted to pick it up. Or at the very least, "acquire" Gold and or Silver, since there were always rumors about the 2nd gen pokemon being hidden in Red and Blue.

::Remembers trying to catch "Pikablu" (Merril or whatever) in the Safari Zone::

[ila]

lol you silly. You have to use strength on the truck first!

[VectorSatyr]

::Remembers trying to catch "Pikablu" (Merril or whatever) in the Safari Zone::

Lol, Marill.

Since we're talking about different methods of play, how about the way Star Ocean did it? (Till the End of Time, specificly)

Each battle consists of the 2 opposing trainers and their pokemon. The trainer is free to move around the arena, basicly acting as the "camera" for the ongoing action between the battling pokemon. Each pokemon's special moves are linked to each button on the controller, and can be comboed together.

You can pause the game on a whim to select different actions, such as running, items, and switching pokemon. Also, when a pokemon is defeated, the battle is paused for selecting the new pokemon, until all pokemon are gone (In which case, it's game over). And, since you're on the battlefield, you can get hit by attacks yourself, making for some interesting gameplay facets (such as Team Rocket cheating by intentionally attacking you).

What's interesting is, despite the drastic change in gameplay, the game's core elements and other random tweaks remain independant of it, so everything from pokemon contests to shadow pokemon from Colliseum can be added without much interference with the gameplay. Also, with the right touches, environmental interaction can be arranged (such as breakable boulders, actual underwater conditions, etc.)

[DimensionWarped]

Ugh. Till End of Time was probably the worst in series for the Star Ocean titles.

[Pheonix Gamma]

lol you silly. You have to use strength on the truck first!

That was Mew at Vermillion City, noob. Such an obscure location, though. Why did the developers decide "hey, let's put an island that's normally unreachable off screen, with a truck!"?

My friends and I used GS to turn my Weedle into a Mew, then we duped it and it spread throughout my town. When we uploaded it to Stadium, it showed up as a Weedle, but the name was Purple/Pink, and it had all of Mew's moves. It was awesome

[ila]

I just used a "wild pokemon modifier" and caught a wild mew.