Spark the electric jester - (DEMO v3 BETA)

[Serephim]

what

 

You don't like his opinions, so you're going to review his review? What the hell?

 

Look, I know you guys like Lake and all, but to you and everyone knee-jerking at non positive reviews, just stop it. That's what the demo is for, to find what people like and what they don't. A thread full of "omg this is the best thing ever, no seriously man rly" is polite and all but that's only one perspective. Pulse gave a google doc full of very descriptive thoughts on the provided demo, and if he thought it was bad, that's his opinion. There are no guidelines for having an opinion. This isn't DeviantArt. 

 

 

ANYWAY

 

The new video of the powers looks pretty intriguing. Have you thought about maybe having enemies drop weapons upon being defeated?

 

A MMX dash would allow for some tighter action elements in terms of positioning. It sets your speed, but do you keep momentum if you let the dash go? Also, If the Dash is a standard ability for Spark, then it opens up another avenue for item differences.

[LakeFeperd]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/mezb901jp3m21m9/Spark+the+electric+jester+DEMO+v2.rar

 

This one is a beta this time, and you guys should expect a few glitches, i'm releasing this one to the public in a way to get some feedback before the actual release. But don't worry, you can play around with this build just like any other demo i made, youtube let's plays, streams, everything like that is all right.

Changes:
- Spark now has a downwards kick
- Spark can now dash -Gravity Gloves and the Scarf allows spark to dash in the air.
- Spark can now do a dash attack
- You will lose a power up after getting hit, the power up will drop off and you will be able to get it back again.
- The power up you have will be represented on the HUD.
- Spark now is able to fill a bar while he is attacking.
- If the bar is full and you fire a charged shot, the charged shot will be more powerfull.
- If you get hit, you will lose the charged bar.
- New sounds have been added
- The electric bat has now been added.
Stages:
- Ambient effects and sound effects have now been added to both stages.
- Two new enemies have been added.
- A mid boss on smog sewer has been added.
- You will now go from stage to stage.
- Debug mode is enabled in this version.
- Level layout has been changed a bit.

And much more.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

@ Serephim

 

Of course! I didn't agree with his opinions. His opinions aren't wrong either (because they are opinions), I just presented how I felt in a funny review type fashion to convey how I felt. All I was doing was sharing my opinion. No harm there.

 

@Lake

 

Oh neato, I'm downloading it now.

[Plom510]

Just played the updated demo myself. Is it just me, or does it seem like the dash is partly inspired by my own project? I kind of get that vibe when I use it. Overall it was still a very fun experience to me.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

Lake himself said that the dash was inspired by megaman X.

[Serephim]

Right off the bat, the Ctrl+Y function for setting joystick no longer seems to allow me to map my own buttons. Dpad is stuck on left analog stick, L + R is stuck on Square/Triangle on my PS3 remote.  Quite awkward.

 

 

Awkward controls aside:

 

The good:

--------------------------------------

-New powerups are all fun to use

-New miniboss is fun

-Rage meter is neat

-Dash always adds some nice feel to the character

 

The not so good:
--------------------------------------
-Kirby weapon loss is a bit annoying because it doesn't seem to have any wall detection. So if it bounces up and into a wall, it just phases up through the level.

- Powerups still feel like more of a side-thought than an actual feature in the levels because of how little you see them

- Smog Sewer is still somewhat boring

- Kind of odd how the rage meter depletes upon taking damage...

 

Some more specific thoughts:

---------------------------------------

 

-Overall, i like the improvements. I still think that the powerups feel a bit underwhelming, only in the sense that they're fun to use but otherwise feel fleeting. Like, you have to find them in the stage and there aren't that many, but losing them is way easier than it should be.

 

- I think you should still work on the way you lose powerups. For instance, in Kirby games, you usually need to take heavy damage to lose your power, but even still getting them back is never that hard. I think another good example would be Cave Story. You don't lose your weapons in that game, but destroying enemies without getting hit rewards you by powering up your weapon. 

 

- Smog Sewer....the miniboss was fun, still don't like the level. And I believe the reason is because it's a water level. Water levels in games are notorious because of how they screw with the physics, almost always in a negative way. You don't really interact with the water as much as you just tolerate it. It hinders you, changes established physics in a non-empowering way, kills you, blah blah everyone hates them. Sonic 3 dealt with this problem by never throwing you into the water without always giving you something to interact with. Hydrocity had alot of gimmicks crammed into the underwater portions, and the water had synergy with the water shield. Oh yeah, and you could also run across the water with enough speed, which means sonic actually could interact with it.

 

In a nutshell, try to turn the water into a playground instead of a pool of punishment. Maybe a powerup that lets you blast through it, or gimmicks that make your time in the water more than just floaty jumps.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Serephim

[LakeFeperd]

Right off the bat, the Ctrl+Y function for setting joystick no longer seems to allow me to map my own buttons. Dpad is stuck on left analog stick, L + R is stuck on Square/Triangle on my PS3 remote.  Quite awkward.

Wait, so it was possible before?

That's another one of the reasons why i wanted to release this as a beta first, I don't have a controller myself to test those things out but from what i know, if you press the "X" check mark to use the joystick again it might allow you to change the inputs. I'm not sure about it though, you can set and customize the keys for a keyboard by doing the same thing.

@Plom510

I made the dash work almost like they do on post X4 megaman games. Although, a dash is pretty common in any megaman inspired platformer, so it's probably just a coincidence.

Edited August 31, 2014 by LakeFeperd

[Serephim]

Yeah, i believe it was possible before. Clicking the X twice usually opens up the menu for me to map my buttons, but for some odd reason it doesn't work on this build.

[Reventador427SGTH]

I already posted this on Lake's devblog, but here is my game bug report sheet for the rest of you guys:

"Honestly, there's lots of things to fix here.
-What is that bar above the health one? I collected orange squares and I thought it would be sort of a "precision bar" (based on my challenge) or it would unlock something special when full, but nothing happens. And you carry this bar on from stage to stage.
-Sometimes, when you die, the game over screen gets stuck and time still counts. I press any buttons but nothing happens, forcing me to restart the level through the pause menu.
-There are certain enemies on Smog Sewer that drop inaccessible squares/life items because they are inside a wall.
-Firing a "raged" charge shot causes the PC to lag a tiny bit during the shot.
-There is one enemy that appears at the end of the stage that fires orbs against me and follows me (it even is during the main boss!). I tried attacking and charging shots like crazy (still haven't tested with "raged" charge shot) but it doesn't die, making the main boss battle impossible. If I die during the main boss battle, that little enemy vanishes.
-You lose the powerup you carried right after defeating the sub-boss in Smog Sewer.
-On Smog Sewer's bosses, sometimes you don't die when you already have no health, but you die on the following hit.
-Exit sign on Smog Sewer does not work as a finish line.

My suggestions:
-leave the "dash" function only for the S button and discard the double tap, or increase the latency between taps. Sometimes I accidentaly dash, leading me to traps.
-fix the death glitches
-make Spark keep the powerup after each boss
-make it have a way to exterminate the "following you" enemy. Perhaps making him defeatable only through a charged shot or lots of regular attacks.

I like the way you hid the powerups from Chrono Adventure and a "Super Spark" (from Dark Sonic, also in Chrono Adventure) that fires a stream of charged shots and makes the "drop". And also the secret command from Sonic Before The Sequel, where you press U to skip levels.
I also had fun completing the levels entirely with the hoverboard.
Keep up the good work."

[Reventador427SGTH]

And here are the debug mode controls, in case you want to know (disable numlock and use the numbers above letters):

 

2 - Play as The Prototype. Does the same attacks as Spark.

3 - Use Gravity Gloves

4 - Use Electric Bat

6 - Use Triple Jump Scarf

7 - Orange Spark backdrop square. Does nothing different.

9 - Spark with no powerups

0 - Grey Spark backdrop square. Fires fireballs left or right while standing.

W - Use Overdrive Sword

E - Use Hoverboard

T - Light Green Spark backdrop square. It's the Jet Shoes from Sonic Chrono Adventure.

Y - Adds a Yellow Spark backdrop square behind the character. Does nothing.

U - Skips level. Exits the game if you are on Smog Sewer Zone. (command originally appeared in Sonic Before The Sequel)

I - Light Blue Spark backdrop square. The Nitrous powerup from Sonic Chrono Adventure.

O - Brown Spark backdrop square. Bumper Gloves powerup from Sonic Chrono Adventure. It's yellow on Tutorial Zone.

L - Goes to the controller test menu.

C - Camera shake. Does not work on Tutorial Zone.

B - Shows permanently the character's sensors.

M - Another grey Spark backdrop square. Fires a charge shot on each normal attack.

F10 - Freeze the game anytime you want. It's reversible.

F8 - Opens a hidden menu.

F2 - Restart game

[☆PicsAndPixels]

Pulse0- "Spark the Electric Jester - Id love to write a review on it, but for now my over all opinion  is - boring - 4/10"

Here is my review:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YVs9-F6QWH2aFw6X_T995fGeFBa6c6ug5o-VBgCqdVU/pub

 

get back to me with what you think please...

Sonic Overture - Id love to write a review on it, no doubt the "best" game at show but for now my over all opinion  is - Fair - 7.5/10

Can we get a review for Overture too, if you can be bothered? Or is that just your whole review?
Because I believe it's missing a few things. . mainly a review

Edited September 1, 2014 by ☆PicsAndPixels

[Jassbec]

@Lake

 

I do enjoy playing this a lot more than I did playing the version at SAGE, those things you added really helped the game IMO.

 

However, there are still plenty of things that bother me, such as dying still being buggy as hell, dropped abilities not colliding with the ground and making you pretty much lose them, it's really annoying.

 

About the power-ups, I do like them but I think maybe making you able to store them for when you want to use them and switch between them would be a good idea since once you lose it you would need to find another one, making you try to take care of the power-ups and giving them some sort of importance.

[Pulse0]

Pulse0- "Spark the Electric Jester - Id love to write a review on it, but for now my over all opinion  is - boring - 4/10"

Can we get a review for Overture too, if you can be bothered? Or is that just your whole review?

Because I believe it's missing a few things. . mainly a review

sure, thanks for reminding me. I hve to finish sparks HTi but i'll get on that.

[Serephim]

@Lake

 

About the power-ups, I do like them but I think maybe making you able to store them for when you want to use them and switch between them would be a good idea since once you lose it you would need to find another one, making you try to take care of the power-ups and giving them some sort of importance.

 

Yeah, I feel like the powerups are well designed, but the system for managing them is leaving something to be desired. They feel like the shields from Sonic 3 with more functions, except they're treated like expendables.

 

Instead of making me want to find them, it just kind of discourages me from the whole ordeal to begin with, because they're littered around somewhat massive levels but you lose them so easily. 

[Pulse0]

Part one of my HTi. There might and probably will be tons of errors but I have to stop here because this has really been sorta eating up my time given my recent schedule. Part two is no were near as long as this and i will correct my errors when I complete this for now please try to understand, my poor English skills
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-3Mg7YYZujN1ZTVGFmY2xjNDA/edit?usp=sharing
 

Edited September 5, 2014 by Pulse0

[LakeFeperd]

@Pulse0
Before i start, i want to be clear, i'm actually very thankful about what you did. Thanks a lot for all of your support pulse.

Post Edit: Also, the more i wrote in this post the more i releasied what you actually wanted to say with it yours, but i just felt pressured to write this as a response to someone who has actually just made something pretty big to help me out. I just couldn't ignore it. Just take this as the feelings i felt right after i read your document. If you feel like not reading my response, don't, it might have been too hard in a way, and i feel bad for that. I'm sorry.

 

Ok, so...
 

Enough pulse, don't keep writting this, you are killing me, it hurts a lot.
Spark is broken by design, i noticed that the first time i released the first gameplay trailer. All of the points you said in your document have aready been said somewhere else and everything related to spark's character has been already explained by me way back in retro. Although, i don't think you were supposed to know this from just playing the game, so i what you said is just fine.

"Basically, spark isn't much of a jester, he is not a jester at all, he just owns that hat and does some tricks for a living.
The thing is, spark's electric hat is a regular consumer product and power ups are trial versions of other products. This all goes to a point in the story that says spark isn't special, he is not the hero and what he is doing is wrong. Those products are also used by other npcs and bosses. That's not to excuse a boring game though, I failed there."

But i'm sorry to say that's just how spark is going to be, at least, for now.
I know those are things i need to improve on but the thing is, spark has already gone for 6 months, it's not early anymore, you are right to review the game the way you are doing it, it's very late into its development. I'm already ready to deal with the fact that spark is a lackluster project and is liekly to fail. Since the days of ATS, i've never been good at game development, i'm still on my way there and spark is just another step.

Right now, i only want spark to take a few more months of development and be finished by the end of this year and then, well, i want to move on. But still, right now, i've a few choices i can make.

1: Accept that spark is a lackluster project, go on with the project, do your best so the game can acually be released commercially, be done by the end of the year, work on another game and maybe return to this genre some other time.
2: Rework spark from the ground up into a better game and spend the next few years working on it, the risks of doing this simply mean that if spark fails anyway, it will be years of time gone to waste.
3: Keep working and improving on spark the way it is now and follow the same steps as the above.
4: Cancel spark and move on.
5: Cancel spark and make a new game from the ground up, same assets and all.

I do have a few more plans for this game before i'll be forced to make a choice.
Right now, i'll be taking everyone's adivice and i'm going to rework some stages to fit what you guys suggested but i'm still going to follow my initial vision and be done with it at least by february next year. This is not the same as number 1 though.

 

@Everyone

With that now out of the way, i feel inclied to ask: do you guys want spark to be a thing? I mean, i am willing to actually rework this into something else if you guys feel like it, after all, i'm not making this game for me, i'm making this game for you guys.

Edited September 6, 2014 by LakeFeperd

[Jassbec]

@Everyone

With that now out of the way, i feel inclied to ask: do you guys want spark to be a thing? I mean, i am willing to actually rework this into something else if you guys feel like it, after all, i'm not making this game for me, i'm making this game for you guys.

 

 

Yes, I do want spark to be a thing, it has an enormous amount of potential to be a great game.

 

I'd personally say go for either 2 or 3 and spend some more time developing the game. As a developer, I think that one should try to make their products the best you can, I know you might want to move on, but with that attitude your products will be lacking in quality. You should also attempt to give Spark a redesign, and rework the power-up system. As a follower of your work, you scrapping this would be very disappointing. Don't settle for mediocrity or lacklusterness Lake, I'm sure you can do better, I believe you can.

 

You should also conciser a new name for your project that fits more with the entire mechanics of the game with the power-ups and stuff...I don't have any other ideas though...Spark N' Slash, I dunno have a random game name generator, you might find something cool, maybe. http://videogamena.me/ or just keep the name.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jassbec

[Riseodvi]

I can agree with some of what Pulse0 said, but really, I love this game. Okay, so it's a tad bland and the theme is confusing, but I absolutely love Spark's abilities and the plethora of power-ups that further expand them. Everything just flows, and I loved chaining moves together to cross large areas. However, those enemies were pretty underwhelming. It's interesting how they attack you rather than hurting on contact, but they just don't block your progress like they should. The bosses however were FREAKIN' AWESOME and I can't wait to see more. The level design was good, but it was a little blah, and I think some more trope-based gimmicks could aid that. Overall, I love this game, but it hasn't quite realized it's full potential. Get some better enemies, a bit more interesting stuff going on in the levels, and I think that this could turn out great.

 

Oh, and just a minor complaint here, why the hell can my wall jump DECELERATE? Please make it so he can just unconditionally moves upward when he wall jumps.

 

I'm looking forward to some more whackass power-ups and awesome boss fights!

[Light The Hedgehog]

I actually think Spark is fine the way he is. I actually love the fact that he is just someone who got a hat that gave him powers. This idea has probably been done before but the way it's done with Spark feels great to me. I'd love to actually buy this, as I did Freedom Planet, if you just put more time into it. Fix things as you go, make decisions on your game that you see fit. While you're making this game for us, it still has your spirit and soul put into and I felt such a big sense of the love you had put into. I was iffy on how fast you were developing but I still felt that Spark had much more to show from. 

 

I'd say option 3, I want to see this game strive! It looks so promising and has much going for it, even in a conceptual form. I'd hope that you keep going and make a great game for us all to enjoy!

[Abominal Taz]

@Everyone

With that now out of the way, i feel inclied to ask: do you guys want spark to be a thing? I mean, i am willing to actually rework this into something else if you guys feel like it, after all, i'm not making this game for me, i'm making this game for you guys.

 

Lake, bro, as a fellow artist you gotta realize. You shouldn't be seeking approval from us. An artist need only please himself. Put confidence into the game man, go with option 3. Take your time if you feel like you gotta fix shit. Don't feel pressured by us or someone who keeps writing a review, which Pulse, for real man, what are you doing?

 

Lake don't try to make "the best game ever", make your passion. Ya feel me?

[Sir Spacebar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRmNnoDGbYo&feature=youtu.be

FULL WIDESCREEN VIDEO

Edited September 6, 2014 by Sir Spacebar

[LakeFeperd]

The option i will take will not be decided right now, it will be decided by something that will happen once a guy i'm working with has time to work on it.

I could have just not made that post and keep everyone in the dark about how i feel about spark, but i just had to. I made my choice and my choice sucks... ugh, i hate that. That's how things in my life are right now. Maybe i was just being a bit immature, but at least i was being human. And i feel like this is the right place for me to be one, since it was here where it all started back in the beginning of 2011 (not really that long ago once you think about it)
 
@Abominal Taz

Well, i dunno, i don't feel like i'm an artitst in a way. If i want to sell a product, i have to treat it as a product and i need to make something people want to buy. Right now, i'm failing to do so.
 
That's not just why i'm considering cancelling the game. Spark is just another platformer and to stand out it needs to be great. If i cancelled it and moved on, i would work on a much more original porject i've had om my mind for ages.

@Jassbec
 
It's not really that this attitude will keep me bringing lackluster peojcts, this attitude makes stuff like the v2 beta release come out. If i feel like i'm beign defeated, i need to rise up and do something about it you know.
But the thing is, i don't have infinite time to work on spark, i only have at least 2 years before i should start to show some profits out of my work. Things will never be the same if i fail.
That's why i think cancelling spark is not that bad of a thing. I would make a better game in its place, a much more original and interesting game.

@Sir Spacebar

yep =P
That's pretty much the reason why i made those changes.
That's one new way to beat a boss actually. Players now can choose if they want to build their "rage" metter, go like that, fire at a distance or do it in a mixed way.

[☆PicsAndPixels]

Despite me actually not finding much enjoyment out of Spark, I still want to see you make this :3 I'm sure you'll improve it as time goes on, as with any project made as a labor of love. I'll even try out the finished one just like I did ATS and BTS ^ ^ And if I don't like it, hey, that's just my perspective on it XD I'm sure there's lots of people out there that it will brighten their day

[Reventador427SGTH]

Honestly, Lake, I'll go with option 3.

I know the feels, it's not easy to develop a first commercial game.

Look at your past projects. I've been a very loyal fan of you since BTS came out.

Your best project so far was Sonic Chrono Adventure. I have to tell you it was so good it should be an official game.

Combat platformers are being underrated nowadays, but don't worry.

I liked your "rework" on Spark's appearance to make it more original (on your devblog).

Take examples like VVVVV. It's a simple platformer, but rapidly ot grabbed the attention.

Even if you take inspiration from somewhere, the content is always original.

New powerups, new moves, new stages, new battles.

Do it like the way you do now and you'll have success.

Little things can blast off to make a huge difference.

I would really love to support you and pay not just for the full game, but also donate the necessary amount your past projects are worth if they were payware.

Trust in yourself, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!

Salute LakeFeperd, THE ABSOLUTELY BEST GAME DEV OF HISTORY.

[Serephim]

Wow. 

 

@Pulse -
I understand you're trying to help, but I was quite surprised to click that link to find a 6-page dissertation on this demo. While I can agree on some points, the majority of it seems to be pandering around design philosophies, many of which CAN be applied to Spark...but then again can be applied to any game if you try hard enough. I don't see much value in comparing Megaman X or Azure Striker Gunvolt to this game. There are many situations where you can call a failure to grab the player a 'design flaw', but then again it could easily just be an opinion of yours. Fixing Spark by making it more like Megaman X isn't fixing spark, it's designing a different videogame.

 

 

Now: 

 

@Everyone

With that now out of the way, i feel inclied to ask: do you guys want spark to be a thing?

 

Do you want spark to be a thing? Yes, spark has some issues that need fixing. No, the graphics are not professional, thats understandable. Regardless, the thing I like the most about you Lake is that despite all of this, you actually complete games. 

 

You could rebuild it from the ground up, and it would certainly be better for it. But I don't think that's necessary. None of the issues i brought up requires that level of overhaul. Do not make the mistake of trying to please everyone who plays your game, you will never succeed at it. That includes fans of other platformers, other artists, ect. Just continue making the game in ways you think are fun, and make improvements along the way. Just realize, Sonic BTS/ATS/CA were not perfect games, in fact I could criticize them just as much as spark. But that's fine, because people played them, loved them, and now support you and Spark because they enjoy the things you create. 

 

 

I say, go for 3. Continue doing whatever it is you're doing, release demos from time to time, take the advice but keep it moving. The execution may not be perfect right out the oven, but your ideas are intriguing and enjoyable, and player feedback will get you there.