Rumor: XIII Versus cancelled

[Serephim]

http://kotaku.com/5927645/rumor-final-fantasy-versus-xiii-is-dead

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I only really felt optimistic about XIII and XIII-2 because i knew versus was actually going to be a good game.

I thought XIII-2 was a fun little game, but seriously, XIII's story is pretty terrible compared to any of the previous entries and its world, despite being pretty, is even less developed and so focused on time travel and invisible Fal Cie gimmicks that it's about as clearly defined as Eva or the Matrix trilogy.

I dont give a fuck about XIII-3 anymore, XIII-2's DLC content completely underwhelmed me as i was expecting an ACTUAL expansion, not little 2 hour ditch quests. So honestly for the first time in history, i actually feel cheated by Square Enix. They can tack XIII's battle engine on ANY other ff title and have it do wonders. I wish they'd just quit procrastinating already.

Anyway hope its just a rumor.

[shadowgoten]

lol I'm going to throw more salt on the wound, http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/square-enix-no-final-fantasy-vii-hd-remake-until-weve-made-a-game-better-than-final-fantasy-vii/

so square pretty much admits all the games past 7 have been complete shit, and until they fix that, they're holding 7's remake hostage. WTF, this game would generate millions of dollars, and probably sell entire consoles.

[TailsSena]

lol I'm going to throw more salt on the wound, http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/square-enix-no-final-fantasy-vii-hd-remake-until-weve-made-a-game-better-than-final-fantasy-vii/

so square pretty much admits all the games past 7 have been complete shit, and until they fix that, they're holding 7's remake hostage. WTF, this game would generate millions of dollars, and probably sell entire consoles.

Yeah, I would have been willing to buy a PS3 for this game, considering I don't have one.

EDIT: No VII remake until you make a better game than VII?

Pfft! You forget XII exists, guys!

Heck, you're forgetting... IV, VI, IX, XI, XII, XIII, and almost every spin-off the series got!

[shadowgoten]

Yeah, I would have been willing to buy a PS3 for this game, considering I don't have one.

EDIT: No VI remake until you make a better game than VI?

Pfft! You forget XII exists, guys!

what is wrong with you O.o, I hope you're joking.

[TailsSena]

What would be wrong?

[shadowgoten]

12 was a pile of shit, it was an autopilot mmo hybrid that no matter how many times I forced myself to play through it, I just couldn't stomach the game. I got to some poison dragon who's tactic was to spam status effects on your whole party 24/7, and then realized the rest of hte game was just going to be me fighting status effects the whole time and gave up on that shit.

[TailsSena]

Okay, this is an argument I don't need to have; so keep your opinion.

[shadowgoten]

I mean even square agreed their FF games are shit up to now.

Anyways, they basically admitted that every ff past 7 hasn't lived up to the quality of the series before it, and that's something I can agree with. 9 was probably the closest they've gotten to living up to the standard and quality of the older games.

everything went out the window as soon voice acting became a big thing. FFX removed the world map feature instead just slapping you into tubes of areas that you could run through which was pretty much the precurser to the straight forward run through that was ff13. Seems like there's always a sacrifice in a major part of what makes an FF game for graphics, audio, or cool little features.

[Duckboy]

so this means we're getting kingdom hearts 3 finally right? cause fuck final fantasy xiii versus give me kingdom hearts 3 you fucking bastard

[Carl Winslow]

Is it so wrong to just want another Einhander or even just an HD remake of Einhander?

'cuz that shit was ballin!

EDIT: actually if they can't make a game better than ff7 then I doubt they'll ever be able to make something that was even better it.

[XeroNazoBlaze]

Kotaku says it's a rumor.

Meh, never cared about the FF series and Kotaku's journalism quality is the same as IGN's, so I have no reason to trust them.

Is it so wrong to just want another Einhander or even just an HD remake of Einhander?

'cuz that shit was ballin!

Dat boss theme.

[TailsSena]

so this means we're getting kingdom hearts 3 finally right? cause fuck final fantasy xiii versus give me kingdom hearts 3 you fucking bastard

Yes, we need that game, NOW!!

Unless 3D passes as 3, I've been wondering if that's what was supposed to be 3...

[Duckboy]

Is it so wrong to just want another Einhander or even just an HD remake of Einhander?

'cuz that shit was ballin!

long live ehrgeiz

edit: also ya stop reading kotaku they are shit

[Serephim]

12 was a pile of shit, it was an autopilot mmo hybrid that no matter how many times I forced myself to play through it, I just couldn't stomach the game. I got to some poison dragon who's tactic was to spam status effects on your whole party 24/7, and then realized the rest of hte game was just going to be me fighting status effects the whole time and gave up on that shit.

Haters gon hate, FF12 was a fucking wonderful game.

IMO it's the best looking game they've ever done. The art direction on the environments were god damn amazing; i'd REALLY love to see that sort of effort done on a Next-Gen engine. If only I were smarter and understood the story it'd be one of my favorites. Fuck, it's still one of my favorites. I have over 100 hours of gameplay invested in my save and i still havent beaten the game. XII was only bad if you rejected the Battle engine. But anyone who's put significant time into Final Fantasy XII can just flat-out tell you -- there is absolutely no difference between random ATB battles and the Active Dimension system 12 used. Especially if you put it on Wait (which i always do for anything serious anyway.)

IMO the death of Final Fantasy didn't start with FFX, it started with FFIX. Not because IX was a bad game, but because IX wasnt acccepted as well as it should have been. It was the only game that went backwards towards what made FF6/7 so damn great. Regardless, X was the best love story Final Fantasy has ever had, and while i say XII had the best Art direction, X most definitely had the best world put together for the setting of the game. Spira was awesome, world map or no. And make no mistake; despite the loss of the World Map, NONE of the depth elements were sacrificed in that game. You should try a No Sphere Grid playthrough sometime. It's actually REALLY fun. Final Fantasy X has one of the best progression systems SINCE the materia system.

On the remake of FF7:

Ive explained my views on the rut that Square has gotten itself into before.

Final Fantasy will never be what it was until they realize that the Final Fantasy of the past is (quite ironically) no longer possible with today's technology. They want engrossing, realistic looking stories that you take seriously, but they seem to forget that both Final Fantasy 6 and 7, two of the darkest FF stories in modern memory, has some of the most comical and non-serious gameplay elements imaginable. A fighting octopus? hour-long cross-dressing minigames? Squat battles? Opera brawls? Snowboarding minigames?

The "serious" feeling they try so hard to give their characters and storylines would fall apart immediately. And this is what i think the consequence of time has done to Final Fantasy -- it simply takes itself too seriously. It no longer is an RPG because it's no longer TRYING to be a videogame anymore.

The sad truth is, Final Fantasy 7 is IMPOSSIBLE to remake without being faithful to its true nature. And the true nature of Final Fantasy 7, contary to what fanservice has lead us to believe, was not this:

It was this

There is a difference, and it would definitely show if you fucked with it. It would work either way, but so much would be lost by going from an obvious chibi style to a fully proportioned FF8/10+ style. I think an FF7 remake would brutally awaken Square to just how much has changed ever since technology has turned pixelated characters into damn near CG-quality humans with every expression visible and every detail obvious. I want them to take note on why most of FF7's character interactions, minigames and jokes would be extremely difficult (if not downright impossible) to translate into Advent Children-grade graphics. There are so many events, both cutscene AND battle related, that would make no sense if FF7 were made in Advent Children's image. Something as simple as Cloud's exchange with Rufus would raise eyebrows, and that is a generous example.

And you know what? Reading that article and hearing Square say that still gives me hope for the company more than anything. Because it would make them like, oh say Capcom, who doesn't give a fuck about greater quality anymore. They are absolutely positively true -- they dont need to fucking TOUCH Final Fantasy 7 or anything under it until they can get their current shit on track. You cant remake something you dont understand, and i dont even think they really understand why that game was so well received. It's obvious they dont, or they never would have gotten to this point.

[ila]

You guys are reading too into this: just because a FF hasn't lived up to 7's inflated expecations does not mean it's been "shit."

Whether or not v13 is cancelled is a bummer, but at the very least it's assets will probably get folded into Final Fantasy 15.

I could go into some long rant about JRPGs are such an easy punching bag for self described game journalists, but instead I leave you guys with this quote about women's rights in games.

Here's the thing. People online -- and in life in general -- are always looking for reasons to be 'right.' They look for ways to be morally superior by making someone else 'wrong,' or some work of art 'wrong.' That's what both the Lollipop Chainsaw controversy and the Tomb Raider controversy are mostly about. They're people looking to be outraged and offended so they can let off some steam.

If you have more than half a brain cell you should be able to see that logic applied here. Incidentally there's another game series that gets equally beat up. I think it's called "Sonic the Hedgehog"

[shadowgoten]

You guys are reading too into this: just because a FF hasn't lived up to 7's inflated expecations does not mean it's been "shit."

Whether or not v13 is cancelled is a bummer, but at the very least it's assets will probably get folded into Final Fantasy 15.

I hope that's the case, I've read a rumor that 15 is supposed to be an evolved ff12 battle system. Hope that one is debunked.

EDIT: also my distaste for the series at this point does NOT stem from FF7, yes that's one of my favorite in the entire series, but I LOVE 4 5 and 6 as well. I haven't really been able to push myself to beat 1 2 and 3 as their stories were less intricate and the main characters were practically non existant (till 3).

And Sereph as much as I usually agree with your rants for the most part, I really can't agree on 12, to each his own I guess. I have given that game more tries than pretty much any other game too, the battle system is actually not that bad but I hated when the game devolved to status effect city and me racing around menus trying to cure people of bullshit problems. I would also enjoy never seeing that become the staple battle system of the series, it was unique for 12 let's leave it that way.

[Serephim]

I'd say the status effect issues would easily be countered by a simple gambit switch. Most of the bosses that used them had a specific set of them. The worst thing you could be hit with honestly was like Stop or Immobilize. But none of this really matters because even if by chance some enemy casted Doom on your ENTIRE party (which never happens btw) you have to have all 6 of them wiped out to actually lose. As fucking ridiculous as FFXII's clan mark battles got, i very rarely ended up with a Game Over.

I really wish more Modern Final Fantasy titles worked like XII did with the party system. I've recently become somewhat annoyed by RPGs that are story driven, yet limit you to a fraction of your party during battle. Games like Breath of Fire IV and Star Ocean 4 were allowed to make ridiculous boss fights because you have access to your entire party during battles. Final Fantasy XIII would have been SIGNIFICANTLY easier were your party settings not deliberately locked out for no reason during battle. They would have been able to create even more crazy boss ideas if you didn't have to trial-error every battle you got into.

But anyway....I can definitely see how XII can be a hit or miss game for most people. It didn't take very much at all for me to get into it though. IMO, it's the best game Square Enix has done since the merger. They cut corners on nothing presentation or depth wise. I mean you could program your own AI for christs sake. I just wish they gave a bit more avaliable text on the storyline as the story unfolded. Or, like Tactics, gave you the ability to replay scenes to make sure you caught everything that happened. (fucking ivalice...)

....In fact, the reason im so damn excited for Versus XIII is because i envisioned it as Final Fantasy XII, with next-gen graphics, and an Action-rpg system replacing (or enhancing) the Active Dimension Battle system that FFXII used. Footage showed that, just like Final Fantasy XII and the older FF titles, you were able to switch between playable characters in your party. Combine this with Free Roaming and some action mechanics, and it's basically the best of everything for me. For instance, being able to Gambit Donald and Goofy in Kingdom Hearts (let alone just switching to controlling them) would have opened up so many different battle possibilities and strategies.

[Falk]

Only thing I can say about FFXII is I can't remember -any- of its music. Literally none. Considering how I'm either a huge critic or connoisseur of a game's audio that's telling of how bland and unmemorable it was as a whole.

[DimensionWarped]

Couldn't get behind FFXII. Say what you will about its visual quality or its sense of scale... for some of us it was just a boring game.

I for one just don't want to play an MMOified Final Fantasy game.

I agree about FF7 though. The realistic models modification in the PC version just looks ghastly, and it's partly because the characters just look so vacuous when they don't look like blatant bobbleheads. Going with that stylized split between battle and the world/field for a change would probably help them reclaim some of their charm. It doesn't have to look downright ugly like the field models did in FF7 of course, but something that deliberately lacks detail isn't always a bad thing.

[Serephim]

Only thing I can say about FFXII is I can't remember -any- of its music. Literally none. Considering how I'm either a huge critic or connoisseur of a game's audio that's telling of how bland and unmemorable it was as a whole.

Its music wasnt bad or bland, but it most definitely was not memorable. I know exactly what you mean, and it's somewhat unfortunate. FFXII's music is perfect for whatever setting you happen to be in at the time...but aside from that, you wont get anything else from it. It's almost completely ambient and void of any real memorable melody.

Except for the Esper battle remix on Dissidia. That was damn amazing.

Couldn't get behind FFXII. Say what you will about its visual quality or its sense of scale... for some of us it was just a boring game.

Yeah, i can see that. If you gave it a shot and still thought it was boring then there really isn't much more to say about it. I just dont like those who bash it without actually trying to understand it.

Probably because I did the same thing before i actually played it. And i personally know so many others who have done it as well.

[TailsSena]

I think another reason a lot of people don't like XII is the difficulty spikes...

I remember sailing smoothly along what was it, Giza Plains? The enemies there where perfect for my party to handle, especially with how broken Larsa is as a healer...

And then I entered some mines. Started with an L, I think... And things went downhill for like... And hour. Why? Ambushes. Ambushes involving 8+ Jellies in a tiny room with my incredibly 'all around' party... Yeah, I died a lot. Didn't help that I never use Baltheir or Fran, so they're still levels 13 and 11 respectively.

And then the boss of that dungeon... Hooooo, he was a tad strong.

10 minutes later, and I get the... Great Wyrm, I think? Anyway, he did the status spamming stuff shadowgoten spoke of...

I hate confusion. Even more than disable and doom.

That said, I still love the game, it just isn't without its flaws.

[Serephim]

Every guest in XII had a very convenient, infinite stock of hi-potions so running around with them usually gave you more than enough to survive the area you were in...within reason. Granted you didn't do anything dumb, like attack something that just looks like it'll wipe the floor with you or run into a group of aggro undeads 10 levels over you. (Undeads were undoubtedly the worst in 12. They're always the worst because they spam status effects. This is usually combated by how easily damaged they are, thanks to healing spell weakness.)

But in 12 fucking undeads swarmed like a bitch in the wrong areas, and the Ghost types were damn annoying to deal with.

@ Tails-

Not using Balthier or Fran? Lol that is one of the dumbest things...I dont know why anyone would refuse using the two coolest fuckers in the game (first off), but Balthier and Fran are two of my most useful party members, Balthier specifically being one of the strongest because he uses guns, and Fran being useful because Bows are powerful, fast, and she has a natural growth for Magicks. Balthier was easily drawing 5000-9999s off the right enemy types with mid-level rifles and neutral / opposite-element ammo. He was beastly with guns.

Penelo and Basch were the characters that i orphaned throughout my playthrough, mainly because they didn't fit any real spaces...until i started exploring more and fighting more powerful Clan Marks. Penelo basically became my "backup" mage (Ashe was monstrous enough by herself, until an enemy focused her) and Basch became part of my assault squad. I never used Gambits for magicians, since their MP was never worth wasting on grunts and in serious fights, having your white/black mage on Gambits is just suicide.

But my general travel party was just Vann (Sword) Balthier (Rifle) and Fran (Bow). Balthier and Fran would usually murder anything that ran in range of their weapons, but if a dangerous battle ensued, I always had the preemptive strike thanks to their wonderful range.

Anyway, FFXII being described as an MMO bothers me. Not because it doesn't resemble one -- it most definitely does. But because if you were to remove the ability to move around and make every enemy send you to an area-based battle arena...it would be identical to FF6/7/8/9. Absolutely identical. Nothing would be changed.

The reason i liked Final Fantasy XII is because i view it as a true innovation on the ATB system. It took the random battles of Final Fantasy of old and did what Earthbound did -- stopped wasting your fucking time on weaklings. Gambits made your common-sense routines automatic (I.e. reapplying buffs and supports) since you no longer had transitions between fights to alert you. And when shit hit the fan? Change Battle Speed to a slower setting. Now you're playing FF9. Fighting too many enemies? Too much going on? Too many status effects / enemies on the screen? Menu > Change "Active" to "Wait". Now you're playing Final Fantasy 10. Well, sort of. There's no turn meter, no. But you still get "[X enemy] is readying [Y attack]" to react accordingly.

But when you're just traveling the world map? Searching for secrets? Doing a quest? Just plain Grinding? Speed = "Fastest". "Wait" = "Active". Turn Gambits on. Now i can go from point A to B without wasting a 3rd of my time doing so on transition and victory screens. OR, my common affliction of being so annoyed by bitch fights that i'd rather run away than waste another ATB rotation because the damn mob didn't happen to die in 1 hit. I can even remove all my party members from the group and just run around with one character to feed them EXP, or just for fun. It just felt smooth. The battles may not be as constantly cinematic as the other FF games, but thats about the only tradeoff you get.

On the topic of XII, XIII and Versus

I think perfection in FF13's battle engine lies in FF12's approach. All Final Fantasy XIII did was have you run around and fight anyway. Square even mentioned that early in XIII's development, you were able to control your character's movement on the battle screen. Why not simply remove the transitions from FFXIII?

What would you be losing? Not a damn thing:

-characters were already AI controlled

-none of the Spells/Summons in XIII used the actual instanced field to its cinematic advantage like FF7 or 8 did with its Summons or Magic spells (terrain deforming)

-None of the monsters did either.

All you did in FFXIII was run around and fight shit anyway. Why not just make the fights seamless? Wouldn't it make the realization of Paradigm, spacing and "action" all the better? And with FFXIII-2's inclusion of jumping, they really have nothing else holding them back. Even FFXII's Eidolon system would chemistry perfectly with FFXIII's idea of stupid transformer summons. In FFXII, you summon them and they walk the map with you. Why not in FFXIII-3, you just summon them and use them to travel the world map faster? Why the fuck do i need a chocobo if i have a freaking odin horse-dragon hotrod??

THIS is why I was excited for Versus. It's like the best of all worlds combined, this old idea i had for FFXIII after it released almost drawn from my mind by square and realized in an actual title. Kingdom Hearts action + FF party mechanics + seamless innovations = one really awesome action RPG where your abilities not only make you feel like the lv255 god you are in the battle sequence, but everywhere else too. Like a perfect fusion between KH2 and Final Fantasy.

Im a spikey-haired 16 year old who can cut buildings in half with a blunt object and defy gravity. YES, you might as well just let me fly whenever the fuck i want to. That is what I call immersing the player in the game AND the story at the same time lol

edit:

Jesus, i look up a few minutes later and it looks like i typed a novel. How do i do that? : 0

[TailsSena]

Holy shit that was a long read on my phone's screen. Thankfully it forces things to fit within the frame so I'm not scrolling horizontally.

And I must say, I agree with all the points that weren't aimed at me.

That said, let's reply to your reply to my not using Baltheir/Fran...

I really don't know why I don't use Baltheir, I mean, I like him enough, I just never use him for no reason I guess...

Reason I never use Fran: She looks like a hooker with fur ears, and nobody knows how old she is.

My usual party is Vaan and Ashe, with Penelo and Basch taking turns.

And I haven't beat the game yet, either. I need to.

Someday, I will.

[Serephim]

from now on i think i'll just like, i dont know, not type so fast.

Balthier is like the coolest FF dude in years imo, and i like Fran just because I like Fran. I tend to stick with the characters that are together early in the game because they always seem to have the strongest relationships (and you get the most time with them.) So since the point where Balthier and Fran met Vann, that was pretty much my team. Cloud-Tifa-Barret / Squall-Zell-Rinoa / Tidus-Auron-Rikku. I play it pretty straight lol.

And i havent beaten FFXII either. I dont know why. I have access to the final area, but there is just so much shit to do and see in that game that i dont feel any urge to finish.

That, and unlike the other FF games, i dont feel any urgency to end the plot because...tbh i really dont know what the fuck is going on.

[TailsSena]

Long story short, Vayne is a a power hungry bastard, so he kills the king, but unbeknownst to him, Larsa has been helping you all along.

Also, is there a way to like... Hack the disk to put Reks back in my party? I want him back... And Rassler, that would be nice, although I don't think he was ever playable.