Thefinalboss123 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well pretty much what the title says and yes i already know that there is some on the main website but there in the wrong format i need a sheet if anybody could get these for me it would be greatly appreciated Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazefireLP Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thefinalboss123 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 thanks blazefire your the shit (in the good way lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Can't wait to see Chimpos reaction to people using the work he did for Sonic CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazefireLP Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Excuse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenor Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Excuse me? The sprites were done by Chimpo, a Sonic Retro member. Using these sprites would be like using Taxman's Desert Dazzle. They were done by community members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsSena Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The sprites were done by Chimpo, a Sonic Retro member. Using these sprites would be like using Taxman's Desert Dazzle. They were done by community members. Is this a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floofy Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is this a problem? If you worked on something, and someone else stole it, wouldn't you be annoyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenor Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is this a problem? Honor among thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaitoSan Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ummm yea i don't think you can call them thieves just for referring sprites. If you just told him he could have replaced the post or even asked the maker of the sprites for permission. Which you did so there was no need for that last post. >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here's my stance on it... Taxman didn't hesitate to use SEGA owned sprites back when he was just a fangamer. Once it's owned by the company and is no longer just a fanwork, it's fair game for fangamers. Don't bother trying to seek permission since no individual working for SEGA is allowed to give permission. In fact, they probably won't even suggest at giving you permission. But legally it's no different than working from any of the other assets we use, and morally there isn't any clear distinction. If you are asked explicitly not to use it by the artist or by SEGA, then you should probably pay attention, but until then, reusing assets from SEGA's games is pivotal to the existence of this community in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsSena Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here's my stance on it...Taxman didn't hesitate to use SEGA owned sprites back when he was just a fangamer. Once it's owned by the company and is no longer just a fanwork, it's fair game for fangamers. Don't bother trying to seek permission since no individual working for SEGA is allowed to give permission. In fact, they probably won't even suggest at giving you permission. But legally it's no different than working from any of the other assets we use, and morally there isn't any clear distinction. If you are asked explicitly not to use it by the artist or by SEGA, then you should probably pay attention, but until then, reusing assets from SEGA's games is pivotal to the existence of this community in the first place. Yes, that's what I was thinking. Just thought I wasn't the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here's my stance on it...Taxman didn't hesitate to use SEGA owned sprites back when he was just a fangamer. Once it's owned by the company and is no longer just a fanwork, it's fair game for fangamers. Don't bother trying to seek permission since no individual working for SEGA is allowed to give permission. In fact, they probably won't even suggest at giving you permission. But legally it's no different than working from any of the other assets we use, and morally there isn't any clear distinction. If you are asked explicitly not to use it by the artist or by SEGA, then you should probably pay attention, but until then, reusing assets from SEGA's games is pivotal to the existence of this community in the first place. I would agree if these were graphics from 1993, but they're made by active community members in recent months who usually see our fan games sooner or later.For me it's more about respect to fellow members. Then again, some people don't know what respect is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenor Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ummm yea i don't think you can call them thieves just for referring sprites. If you just told him he could have replaced the post or even asked the maker of the sprites for permission. Which you did so there was no need for that last post. >_> I never called anyone a thief. It's just an expression to say that, while you might not have honor to someone unrelated to you, among your own group you might have. I'm not aware of who has done most of the art in the old games and I doubt they'll be aware of me, so I don't have hesitation when it comes to using their old resources. However, when that someone is very likely to be as we're part of the same community, I think it's better to hold myself back even if the work done isn't owned by him or her anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would agree if these were graphics from 1993, but they're made by active community members in recent months who usually see our fan games sooner or later.For me it's more about respect to fellow members. Then again, some people don't know what respect is! I'm sorry, I just don't comprehend this sentiment at all. I don't see what difference it makes that they are people we interact with or if the time frame the graphics were made is different. I don't see what magic element of separation exists between this and that which makes one 'disrespectful' and the other totally fine. It's all fine and good to end with some indirect statement proclaiming people as disrespectful, but unless you have some legitimate meaning to it that doesn't go completely against the whole concept of what this forum is about, it all seems very inane to me. The two details you brought up are just incoherent. You might as well just say we ought to stop being borrowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I never called anyone a thief. It's just an expression to say that, while you might not have honor to someone unrelated to you, among your own group you might have. I'm not aware of who has done most of the art in the old games and I doubt they'll be aware of me, so I don't have hesitation when it comes to using their old resources. However, when that someone is very likely to be as we're part of the same community, I think it's better to hold myself back even if the work done isn't owned by him or her anymore.Pretty much what I agree with. It just feels off, and then you'll have at least a fair number of other people who are in this boat and will look down at you for using the works that other community members did. It's one thing with some person I'll never see, know, and they'll likely never know or see me either, but another thing when its community members who will see me using their work in a lesser project. It's kind of insulting to their efforts (it gets funny though when we don't care about "insulting" older work from the 90s but it's something I have a hard time explaining).and yes I actually do more-or-less support the idea of not using borrowed graphics (I'm okay if they're placeholders though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 So in other words, it's all about whether you'll get caught and harassed over it. If borrowed graphics aren't O.K. then neither is the very concept of a fangame. Either way you are working with the product of someone else's time and intellect and you don't have the permission to do so. It's funny though, because those kinds of trespasses are what leads to stuff like SonicCD's remake happening in the first place. Let's be realistic. It isn't like we don't all want our own original graphics, but when it comes down to it, nothing we ever do is truly complete and you have to choose what you spend your time on. Even a finished project never makes it past the point of 'a placeholder' for something unrealized, and there are those among us will never have the skill or the time to come up with their own graphics to replace those placeholders. So you prioritize, and sometimes you just can't make a priority of making that original Tails sprite for the special stages, so you use the rip. And as long as it's all just done in the name of experimentation without trying to claim it as some kind of original artwork, no one is really harmed by any of it... and the people who act like they are shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thefinalboss123 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 wow i was just asking for some sprites its funny how it turned into an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strife Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well, it's a legitimate concern among many of us. Personally, I'm on the same boat as DW; The only difference between this and using sprites from official Sonic games is that this somewhat feels like we're ripping from our own kind, so it's understandable that some of us would be more hesitant about it. As for me, it's not something I'm picky about since I rarely use ripped graphics anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's not that funny, it's actually a somewhat high-gravity issue that we need to come up with a resolution for. We don't currently have any kind of policy in place for how to deal with current sprite rips and the like, much less when the actual works in question were created by people who are actually sceners. My current inclination is to not host any of this stuff on site just because it could stir up some kind of grief, but as for how I feel about it personally, a sprite is a sprite is a sprite regardless of who you ripped it off from. The only courtesy I think people should really have is that if you are going to use someone's original sprites, you at least wait until they've made their own game with it and of course credit them appropriately, but I'm very much aware that there are people in the community who vehemently disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 So in other words, it's all about whether you'll get caught and harassed over it.If borrowed graphics aren't O.K. then neither is the very concept of a fangame. Either way you are working with the product of someone else's time and intellect and you don't have the permission to do so. It sounds more like you're talking about a hack, than a fan game.But yeah, at the core, fan gaming kind of -is- about if you get harrassed and caught over it. SEGA generally approves of fan games, but most of the time the people who work for it aren't -in- the community (much less probably don't speak fluent english), so my attitude then is "eh, why not?" Sonic CD 2011 has been an odd case for me though because of its connection to the community, and if anyone -were- to use its new material, I could easily see them being looked down upon by some, especially the original content creator. Taxman has already said here he doesn't really approve of the idea, but hey, this community is all about borrowing; damn respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What Taxman actually said regarding that level which never got made was that he is legally obligated never to give approval. He also said explicitly that he wouldn't outright forbid it either. I personally don't see using materials for a largely trivial endeavor like a fangame to be an issue of respect. You can bet your ass that outside of this little clique (for instance, people who still make flash videos for whatever reason) that people won't be at all hesitant to use any of those things anymore than we are to use some random sprite from Marble Zone, and it won't be because they are disrespecting him. If anything, recycling sprites is a sign of appreciation for that art. Besides, fanworks have always operated off of the principal of "Better to ask forgiveness than permission" Also no, I was talking about fangames. Well, fangames, and all other fan-produced media ranging from a drawing of Sonic to a spoof musical of Harry Potter. Borrowing artwork isn't intrinsically any worse than borrowing ideas, settings, characters, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I know you were talking about fan games, it just sounded more like hacks though. Fan game engines (key word there) are built from the ground up, so technically it's at the core -not- their original product. However, my point is more of the difference between the Sonic CD material being done by community members and older material that we've already used for years. To some people it still seems no different than any other copyrighted sprite, but to some of us as well it is different, in a way an exception. I wouldn't use the material because I respect and look up to the work of Taxman and Chimpo, and it saddens me a bit that people are so eager to jump on anything new and milk it into their fan games. I'd feel shameful if I used their work. So at the core it's just respect for people we know, but it seems clear some people just want to grab whatever they can get, and disregard that. I wouldn't really say (personally) it's about technical copyright and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimensionWarped Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 That's an entirely personal hangup and there could be a whole host of people who don't connect with that and don't see the use of that work as disrespectful, at least not any more than they would from taking a midi of a song from Chrono Trigger. At least here we are in a position to know who made what and give proper kudos for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverbounD Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sparks can we count on you restarting this conversation everytime someone rips something from the CD port? Its an official release to do not rip from the latest Sonic game would be unpresedented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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