---== Sonic Engine To End All Sonic Engines ==---

[Sonic]

..And that's why you're so cool!

[LiQuidShade]

Just want to say how much I'm looking forward to this project, and I hope I'll be able to make good use of the engine when it's finally complete. I've always wanted to create my own, completely original Sonic levels but I've never had the programming know-how to get it done effectively.

Do you think it's possible that you could give us a very rough date on when you think the whole thing will be complete by? Late this year? Sometime next year? I'm just curious as to how much more you think you have to do, in terms of the time it'll take. I don't want to rush you though, of course. However long it takes is fine by me. =)

[Damizean]

I don't know a whole heck of a lot about Game Maker, but I know no GM or MMF game can reproduce the physics correctly -- can't be done in those.

Sorry to say, but that's not true: GM script language (and MMF2 movement SDK, probably) is flexible enough to let you reproduce the same exacts physics: but it's a different matter if someone works on them or finds suitable to use such on new engines

Just because noone did, doesn't mean it's impossible. It is, in fact, very possible to someone who already knows how does the Sonic engine works, but again, it hasn't been done.

[VectorSatyr]

I don't know a whole heck of a lot about Game Maker, but I know no GM or MMF game can reproduce the physics correctly -- can't be done in those.

Excuse me? Just because it HASN'T been done, doesn't mean it CAN'T. Don't get your little head twisted like that. >=(

[The Taxman]

Interesting project

About the "Complex Scrolling" technique... from the screenshot it looks as though you can only control the scrolling for every 8 pixels and not per line... is that right?

[saxman]

MMF can NOT reproduce those physics without either 1) messing up the timing, or 2) messing up the math. It can't get it percise enough because of tiny technical differences. I don't know enough about GM, and perhaps it can reproduce the physics -- I probably mislead in my intentions of bringing GM into this. What I should say is GM can't do everything this engine can do without doing a round-about way of it that is usually slower or just not as efficient.

But don't get so upset there Aero just because I'm throwing a stick at MMF and GM. Relax. I'm not claiming "my engine is best". I'm just putting out facts here, and they are indeed facts. MMF and GM are great products, I'm not putting them down. But my point was to try and explain the advantages of this over them, and you appear to have taken it personally or something. I didn't think it was a big deal. But if it is, I am deeply and sincerely sorry

Actually, it does control by line-basis. The scrolling data allows you to pick a specific point where you want to break the background. I used 16 in that pic because I'm a power-of-2 freak But certainly it can go down to 1 pixel too.

A rought date... I'd say 'possibly' by the end of the year. It could be out sooner, or it could be out much later. I have no idea to be honest.

[DiabloHedgehog]

I still wonder why you made such an early topic about it when you yourself clearly know its not ready for use yet to the public...

Im also suprised this topic is still active.

[LarkSS]

i donno, but couldnt all the stuff youve mentioned easly be done in GM? dont want to make you feel bad or anything, but everything youve stated i have done in gamemaker

Uh, not only is this engine designed to recreate the Sonic game engine, but it also is capable of doing techniques easily that would take a lot of work in GM or MMF.

This project looks really interesting. It pretty much kills my idea of making a Sonic game maker for MMF though...

[saxman]

I made an early topic because I like discussion. When people are interested, they continue to talk and keep things active. That's the reason this topic is still here. I also brought in discussion as early as I did because I like ideas. I like to know what people think of different things. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't have considered the hi-res and hi-color stuff. I'm set in stone on much of it, but I'm more open and flexible in other aspects of the engine.

And as for the MMF thing, you know, even if it isn't capable of reproducing the games exactly, I still encourage MMF development. It taught (well... actually KNP and CNC taught me... but same difference) about what's involved in a game. It got me practice, and even for advanced users it's fine. I used MMF to make my Sonic QX music editor for Sonic 2! Most people couldn't believe MMF could do that. MMF can do a lot, and it can make a good Sonic game. It just can't do a perfect replica.

[Sonic]

I feel something like "OMG ProSonic tosses away every effort I did with MMF so far!".

C'mon! As stated from beginning, ProSonic will be a perfect replica of originals with the unique feature of importing levels from Sonic roms without MD limitations and much more than this, but it shouldn't mean anything to everyone out there seriously working in their MMF Sonic project.

And really, besides the importance of ProSonic itself, I can't understand why I shouldn't post my incoming project, as most of them here are in early or heavy development.

[Asuma]

And for those who are still comfused.

Open Source ProSonic - C

ProSonic Engine- Saxman's programming lang

[hRook]

I think the advent of this though will spawn 50 new games that feel like bad ROM hacks though...

I also think this is inevitable.

[Sonic]

I had a look on Icecap zone yesterday, and found out a place were there's a very cool vertical scrolling BG, it's inside the caves.

Sega was awesome for adding so many GFX touches in S3&K!

Compared to S1&2, it was like running on another console.

I was really depressed when 32X was limited with the poor Knuckles Chaotix.

And I wonder what was supposed to be a Sonic 4 at that time. (wasn't confirmed any development on it, but appeared in the 32x upcoming titles after all)

By the way, the 32X had a different sound chip? Or was it the same as Megadrive?

[saxman]

Yes, S3 used cool scrolling techniques that either were non-existant in the older games, or simply much more rare. I'm actually trying to do more with my background splitting code to allow it to correctly reproduce Launch Base's background (both acts). There are some tricks it does that I'm quite fond of. If I can get that sky reproduced in ProSonic, I will likely consider my splitting code complete. Then I'm off to making an editing utility so people can make their own background effects, as well as filters.

The 32X had a PWM chip which was used for digital audio basically. It was useful for percussion especially. This chip freed the use of the DAC in the Genesis, which in turn would give the Genesis an extra FM channel to use. The 32X uses anything the Genesis has already, but it adds stuff on top of that. So those old Motorolla 68000 and Z80 processors in the Genesis... 32X games use it too. The thing is the 32X has a processor of it's own that is 32-bit, so it can use both if needed for an extra speed boost and useful things like that. However just as a note, I have no intention on emulating any hardware except for the sound chips in the Genesis and 32X.

[null1024]

I've noticed sone of the utilites for ProSonic are still dos apps. Will they run on XP? cause otherwise alot of people will suddenly need DosBOX for only a few apps.

[saxman]

Nobody will need DosBOX or anything like that for those DOS utilities. Windows 2000 and XP can run those programs just fine without any issues, without any extra software or anything. The only reason you'd need that is for hardware access like hi-res or sound or things like that. Most of my programs run in standard 320x200.

However, I will have them all ported to Windows. I won't be doing away with the DOS versions, but my primary focus will be getting them to work friendly with Windows users in particular. The object layout tool and LIMP have both been successfully ported to Windows (LIMP being a WIN32 console app -- which I'm sure most will still confuse for being DOS, but oh well ). It's a lot of tools to port, and I have a lot of tools I have planned but still haven't created. I don't have a tool to make the PZF files, I don't have a tool to create filters or background scrolling effects, I don't have a tool to modify the palettes or the watermaps, and I don't have a tool to create level lists (that is, telling the game what order levels come in, what files go to what levels, etc). All of those items I have done by hand, but for you all, I know you people don't want to have to use a hex editor to create this stuff. So I'll make sure the tools are available and easy to use.

[rogueyoshi]

please allow stand-alone projects to be made with this. this is the major flaw of engines such as open zelda(forgot the new name).

[MrKsoft]

You mean Zelda Classic?

This is getting better and better, Saxman. Keep up the good work.

[saxman]

I've been reworking movement in the engine. I'm pondering on the idea of a possible demo release.

[Asuma]

Ponder hard! Glad to see you're working on this!

[saxman]

Okay, so far...

I've been mentioning on my blog over the past couple weeks that I am planning to fix movement and such. And part of it is fixed. The speed, x velocity, and y velocity are all calulated 100% perfect on any given slope. You can compare the values as they change in both the original games and in ProSonic, and they match. ProSonic actually performs calculations on each of these using a table of pre-defined values. This is to keep things fast. I am thinking of releasing a "ProSonic notebook" which will document many things in the engine, such as the formulas used to create the tables. These formulas form the same values that are formed in the original games.

Problems still remain -- collision detection isn't perfected, and I don't have a complete table of values for calculating the player acceleration rates. I haven't been able to find a working formula to calculate the acceleration rates, so I've been creating a table based off tests of the original games on different slopes. There's a good chance that a formula exists to calculate the entire table, but until I find it, I'll have to figure all the values up by hand.

Once I complete those objectives, the demo option will be on the table. I may even make it so it'll read demo playback data from the original games so you can see ProSonic accurately replay the original levels without any problems. This is essentially the goal. I'm continuing to post new updates on my blog, so check back every so often.