Fill Me In.

[VectorSatyr]

Meh. To sum it nicely without spoiling anything:

Shadow the Hedgehog got terrible backlash from fans because it not only took an extreme deviation from the classic formula, more so than any Sonic game before it, but none of the issues seen in previous games were resolved, some of which were amplified severly (now Shadows aims gunfire worse than Sonic aims homing attacks... eww...). I'd recommend giving it a chance for yourself, but I'm biased: LinkGO7 brought it to our house, I found it boring just WATCHING it. Really reminiscent of SA2, though...

NextGen... Where do I begin? Another huge deviation, but in the form of realism. The whole concept of Sonic being real might have slid if they put more money into fixing everything, instead of using cheap tricks to make up for everything, like making Sonic slower than in previous titles so it's harder to run off the edges (and so you can admire their damn visuals), or putting a delay before homing attacks so players can only blame themselves for careening into the endless ditches that shouldn't be there to begin with. The number of new characters wasn't even that bad - people would have liked Silver more if he wasn't so damn slow compared to the others, though.

Also, if you want the best idea of what DW was talking about HERE, look no further than NextGen, where the personalities and ideas of every characters has no relevance to the story, and absolutely no character development can be seen. I mean, you think using Mephiles as an excuse for Shadow's evil personality could work, but it doesn't - it leaves Shadow the same as he was before. The only character that has even a little development is E-123 Omega, and it's SO small you might not even notice...

[SonicProject]

The problem with SEGA's Sonic characters is that they always feel tacked on. Like they're there just because. There's absolutely no character development (actually that's for the best if you see how much they ****ed up with Shadow's story) and just about every single one of their characters is pretty much just a copy of another.

Sonic can run fast, Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide, climb, dig, and punch, Omega can blow **** up and Silver can fling objects at other objects with his mind. That's about it for creativity from SEGA if you can even call it that.

And I have absolutely no idea why SEGA is so obsessed with forcing you to play all of them one way or the other but it sucks when each character is just like the other in terms of gameplay and levels.

[DizzyDoo]

Sonic can run fast, Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide, climb, dig, and punch, Omega can blow **** up and Silver can fling objects at other objects with his mind.

Unless I am mistaken, the first 3 in that list were identical back when the games were really, really fun. Ie: Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I think Sega were pretty imaginative when they thought up loops, spindash etc. That's my opinion anyway.

[SonicProject]

Unless I am mistaken, the first 3 in that list were identical back when the games were really, really fun.

No, they were not. Tails could fly and Knuckles could glide and climb. Only exception is in Sonic 2. The player could not fly with Tails though Tails clearly had the ability to. So yes, in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic and Tails were identical. But that was it.

[MaxSonic]

I'm looking forward to Sonic and The Secret Rings. Looks to me that it's just plain fun and simple...like the old ones were. Plus, the graphics look amazing. Why can't SEGA make more games like that one and Heros, instead of trying to make him ultra next-gen. Sonic's supposed to be fast, simple and fun, and I think SEGA may have forgotten this.

[DimensionWarped]

Yo, Sereph, SP is absolutely right. Shadow is infinitely better than Sonic Heroes. It's not as glitch-ridden and while Shadow might turn like a dump trunk, it at least has some good motivation for playing all the way through.

Meh. To sum it nicely without spoiling anything:

Shadow the Hedgehog got terrible backlash from fans because it not only took an extreme deviation from the classic formula, more so than any Sonic game before it, but none of the issues seen in previous games were resolved, some of which were amplified severly (now Shadows aims gunfire worse than Sonic aims homing attacks... eww...). I'd recommend giving it a chance for yourself, but I'm biased: LinkGO7 brought it to our house, I found it boring just WATCHING it. Really reminiscent of SA2, though...

dspoiler]

Also, if you want the best idea of what DW was talking about HERE, look no further than NextGen, where the personalities and ideas of every characters has no relevance to the story, and absolutely no character development can be seen. I mean, you think using Mephiles as an excuse for Shadow's evil personality could work, but it doesn't - it leaves Shadow the same as he was before. The only character that has even a little development is E-123 Omega, and it's SO small you might not even notice...

Shadow wasn't that different from Sonic Adventure, which really had the most difference from any other Sonic game before it, but no one ever seems to notice. It wasn't that which led people to dislike Shadow. More than anything, it was atmosphere and a negative-bias approach brought on by the dark themes. Then the story was ____ty and the objectives had a tendency to slow down your progression through some of the story paths.

As for Next Gen, all I have to say is dang since I haven't played it yet. I would have thought some manner of Shadow's design would have changed, but this way its like he never really had an evil personality to start with. Its like they are pretending you took the dark path in Shadow the Hedgehog when 4 out of the 5 paths don't really make Shadow out to be evil but just manipulated by Black Arms. All I have to say is: retarded

But hey, we all knew the Sonic Team writers were incompotent.

Sonic's supposed to be fast, simple and fun

How can you honestly say that after pressing more people towards Sonic Heroes (the least simple Sonic game of any Sonic game ever)?

Also, the Sonic series started incredibly complex compared to other platformers of the time. Sure, you only had one button, but the environmental action was the most complex of any platformer and remains the most complex of any 2D platformer.

Oh, and speed is overrated. Sure, its needed once in a while, but overdoing it is a mistake.

[VectorSatyr]

Shadow wasn't that different from Sonic Adventure, which really had the most difference from any other Sonic game before it, but no one ever seems to notice. It wasn't that which led people to dislike Shadow. More than anything, it was atmosphere and a negative-bias approach brought on by the dark themes. Then the story was ____ty and the objectives had a tendency to slow down your progression through some of the story paths.

Well, the atmosphere, negative-bias approach, and the objective system was kinda the "deviation" I was refering to. But, like I said, I'm biased when it comes to Shadow, solely based on how boring it was, and how much it reminded me of SA2 which, when I think about it, still bores me as well (the only reason I EVER still want to play that game is because it was my very FIRST dreamcast game, and it still has my chao data on it). Add in the control issues I mentioned, and I just couldn't take it.

[shadowgoten]

Hai SP, long time no see, except on MFGG

[Zal]

.......im going to pretend you diddnt say that.

He can say whatever the hell he wants considering it's my thread and I also I know he's a valued member who gave me good information whereas all I hear about you is bitching from people. I don't care, have your opinions but just don't dispute others and turn this into some nerd orgy.

Anyway, I wouldn't doubt that Heroes would be worse than the newer games. Even though I think I'll never get gameplay like SA1 back, I might give NexGen a shot. Anyone know if there's a demo available on XBox Live Marketplace? Once I finally get the thing working I might download it.

[Aaron C-T]

Pros:

- The Town Stages actually have purpose as you can buy addons and complete missions.

- There are multiple paths that actually mean something because taking one path can actually gain you an extra, and arguably valuable, item.

- Spindash is back and doesn't force you to go straight.

- The concept of Jump Panels, from SA, are back and are actually used more than once.

- We finally get water running, or rather sliding, in 3D.

- Badnik diversity means that it actually makes sense how many times you have to a hit an enemy in order to kill it. Leaders naturally take more hits.

- Significantly better level design for the most part, due to things like an abundance of multiple paths/deviations and items hidden under things like rocks/crates.

Cons:

- It's easy to temporarily get stuck to a wall.

- Camera does some wierd things at times.

- Water running, 'scuse me- sliding, can be a pain at times.

- Tails is horribly slow, even when his Tails start spinning he is only going as fast as Sonic walks- maybe slower. He no longer does the Tail Whip.

- Although the physics look great when slamming open a box or knocking over a formation of rocks, the pieces generally disappear which immediately kills the illusion.

- It'd of been nice if more had been done with the Havok engine.

- Grinding has no physics applied. I don't think doing the twirl thing actually speeds you up a substantial amount.

[Aaron C-T]

Review:

When you first start the game, you'll be treated to a cutscene that has actually been thoughout complete with flashbacks. The animation is spot-on and the voice acting fits perfectly, however at one point Dr. Robotnik breaks what could have been the perfect cutscene with one piece of ill-conceived dialogue in the midst of otherwise decent lines. He says something along the lines of: "Oh no! If it isn't that pesty hedgehog again!" Needless to say, it immediately breaks the mood they worked so hard to setup. And this says much about the game. In short, Sonic Next is a noble attempt at creating a come-back Sonic game. It's playable, it's enjoyable, but then you'll suddenly encounter something that makes you go "well.. this would be awesome 'cept for.." and the illusion is lost.

Another example of this is the Town Stage missions. Accessing a mission can be annoying, even if it is fun. You first talk to a person with a blue icon, then the person presents a challenge. Rather than jumping straight to the mission, however, you encounter a loading screen. The mission is then explained, calling for another loading screen to the actual mission. You play the mission and complete it bringing you to the familiar "Act Clear" bit- which is, of course, followed by a loading screen. I'm almost certain the X360 shouldn't need to call forth all of those loading screens. The loading times aren't long either, as they clock in at about 3-5 seconds, which is normally for a loading screen. If there was like.. some sort of "magic download" on Xbox Live that alleviated those pesky little problems this would actually, imo, be right up there with Sonic Adventure. It's simply a matter of bad implementation.

Side-note:

If I were you I would completely ignore anything Serephim says. The "lag" he's talking about has been depicted in videos as being only about 3 seconds. And you don't even have to use it- it's just an animation that plays when you come out of a homing attack and don't hit the button to give you a chance to "adjust yourself." If you desire, you can easily just hit the button again the second you come out of the first homing attack to launch another one which shortens the "lag" time to about 0.5 seconds which is the same as it's always been. Judging by that one fact, I'm going to go as far as to say that he hasn't even played the game and is just giving us a BS run-around.

[Slingerland]

Jesus.

Scatta's Edit=Now with 50% less Jesus.

[Aaron C-T]

Haha, I didn't realize it was going to be that long. I may edit it later on, but as of right now at least it's actually information that can lead him to a decision as opposed to comments like "Sonic Heroes are teh bettar."

[Slingerland]

True. Sonic Heroez is not teh bettar.

Zal, I'd take Scatta's opinion, because...he <3s his XBOX360.

ScAtTa 9 8 3: <3 X360

[MaxSonic]

Am I the only one who thinks the Sonic Advance series is highly underrated? I mean, sure they have their flaws, but it's Sonic in 2D. No camera problems, no glitchy attacks, no crappy voice acting, it's just run to the end of the stage, and knock the crap out of the boss. I'd take any of them over Sonic Next-Gen any day.

[Aaron C-T]

Oh? So wait.. replacing a glitchy camera and "crappy voice acting" (which would be an opinion and not a fact) with repetitive gameplay and horrible level design is any better? Oh sure- yes. That makes perfect sense.

You see, that type of response is exactly why I made that two-post spill up there. If you're going to make a comment like that, back it up or make it actually meaningful. You see there may not be camera issues, but there certainly are screen ones where you sometimes can't see what in front of you and tons of falls-to-your death. Overall, the 2D games are only slightly better in terms of what problems are present and what goods are missing- without opinion as a factor.

You basically said "the 2D games have their flaws, but that's okay because their in 2D- the flaws in the 3D games, however, are inexcusable." That makes great sense.

[Slingerland]

Max, you're so dumb.

I'm not a huge fan of the Advance series, because they involve holding the right button for 3 minutes at a time. And...14 year olds think they're the greatest, when that's bull. R U 14?

The younger members also rape the SAdv content in their fangames. They want advance style everything. Pisses me off.

[Aaron C-T]

I dunno, I can understand people using the Adv style more. There's less detail in the sprites which makes them easier to edit, and there have been 3 Advanced games which offer tons of characters and backgrounds that can potentially be combined with Sonic Rush spritage. At least.. that was my reason for using them. When I fangamed anyway.

[Slingerland]

If you don't fangame anymore, y r u here?

Lawl. <3 you.

[Zal]

Am I the only one who thinks the Sonic Advance series is highly underrated? I mean, sure they have their flaws, but it's Sonic in 2D. No camera problems, no glitchy attacks, no crappy voice acting, it's just run to the end of the stage, and knock the crap out of the boss. I'd take any of them over Sonic Next-Gen any day.

You'd rather bad camera angles, extremely easy stages and lack-luster bosses over a 3D game? Damn, you fool.

And thank you Scatta. You're starting to sway me into getting it.

Infaaaaact I think YOU said it best 'Max':

it's just run to the end of the stage, and knock the crap out of the boss.

Exactly.

[Aaron C-T]

Zal: I played the first boss today, which I thoroughly enjoyed. It's a gigantic dog that charges around an arena. You can't get in front of it otherwise it'll start tearing you apart. You have to run behind it, grind up it's tail, jump, grind on it's body then grab a pole on it's head. Once on the pole, you have to steer it into something in order to cause damage. I haven't played something like that since like.. Sonic Adventure 2, if I remember correctly? But again, it's not the best game you can buy for the X360 or PS3. Still.. it's as close to SA/SA2 quality as I think we're going to have for awhile. And it's a fairly decent game. I luvs it.

[Andrew]

Max, you're so dumb.

I'm not a huge fan of the Advance series, because they involve holding the right button for 3 minutes at a time. And...14 year olds think they're the greatest, when that's bull. R U 14?

The younger members also rape the SAdv content in their fangames. They want advance style everything. Pisses me off.

You're so oldskool Sling.

But still, can't blame them since it's their real first foray into Sonic. We grew up on this ____, they just got introduced to it. Try being a bit more broad-minded, yeah?

Edit: Zal, look me in the eye and tell me Sonic 3 wasn't easy. Look me in the eye and tell me Sonic 1 made you scratch your head and wonder how you're going to finish a stage. Tell me, tell me, when have Sonic games EVER had to be overly-complicated to be fun? The original games were fun because they were fun (I know that sounds silly, but it's true). The simplistic gameplay is what it's about. From what I can see, everyone looks at the label 'next-gen' as if it's meant to mean "complicated and brain-bending", but it's not.

It's the simple games which hooked me to videogames, what about you?

[Zal]

You're so oldskool Sling.

But still, can't blame them since it's their real first foray into Sonic. We grew up on this ____, they just got introduced to it. Try being a bit more broad-minded, yeah?

Yesh but ignorance is no excuse. Unless you're an airline pilot.

[Slingerland]

I used to love them, but now I feel they've been robbed of their former coolness, in my mind. Ya know? The games got old real fast and so did the art style.

EDIT: Happy 300, Zal.

[Andrew]

I used to love them, but now I feel they've been robbed of their former coolness, in my mind. Ya know? The games got old real fast and so did the art style.

EDIT: Happy 300, Zal.

Oh, do you mean as in being overhyped by the new Sonic fans of which the SAdv series was their first? I know what you mean, but really, we were like that with Sonic 1-K. At least, I was.