Is there such a thing as "real" creativity?

[MrLevRocks]

As some of you might have seen on the status updates, I had a small conversation with Sir Spacebar about creativity. I had answered him, that looking at other peoples projects and then working on your project is "not a way to get creative original ideas". He replied that there is no "orignality". I've been thinking about this and have come up with a theory about creativity.

 

Let's take my "original" gimmick ideas and the gimmicks I created for Spykid's level-layouts as examples. 

 

My theory divides "originality" and "creativity" into 2 mayor and 2 minor fields.

The 2 mayor fiels are the "original" creativity and the "unoriginal" creativity. 

 

"Original" creativity is the creativity in which you, as the creator, were free of the ideas of others. I.e. You didn't play any game or watched any media that may have influenced you. The idea created doesn't have to be purely "new". An example of an "original" idea of mine are the drills. While other think those are "already" done, I still came up with them without thinking or seeing other drill-like gimmicks.

 

"Unoriginal" creativity is the creativity in which you, as the creator, can find a source of your Ideas. I.e. You know that your idea IS similar to an idea you've seen before. In an gimmick of mine , that would be the icicles in an ice-themed stage in his fangame. I know I put them there because I've seen the same idea in Sonic Adventure DX, during Sonic's Ice Cap part. 

 

The 2 minor fields are more of the "unoriginal" field-part.

 

The first one "plagiarism" is pretty selfexplanatory. These are the "original" gimmicks, that were taken directly from a source without making large changes to them. The most common example would be the looping. Found first in Sonic 1 and then almost everywhere.

 

The other one would be "lifting" ideas from a source. Again, it is selfexplanatory. As an example you can take the "multi-loop" from Sandopolis Zone in S3&K. It is similar to the "original" looping from Sonic 1, but still is different in terms of the amount of "loops maken" in it.

 

Do you agree with my theory? Do you have a different idea of "originality"? Can you find examples which help your or my theory?

Start a discussion in the replies!

[GSF]

I don't think creativity needs to be 100% 'inspiration-free'.

Also I wouldn't exactly divide originality in 'original' and 'unoriginal'. The first one is a redundant term, and the second one is contradictory.

Being 100% original in whatever you work on isn't a ticket to success, anyway.

I'd like you to check out the 'Everything is a Remix' videos from Kirby Ferguson - it's more centered in music, but it can apply in this case too.

As for Ferguson's video: For example, Hideki Naganuma's music tends to sample TONS of songs, but the songs themselves are all original in the end. Naganuma's style is distinct, and I can know when I'm hearing a Naganuma song. Nakagawa tried replicating the style in Rush Adventure, and while the soundtrack is good, it's not Naganuma's. Hideki served as an inspiration for RA's soundtrack, but in the end said soundtrack is also original in its own way. The Windmill Village songs and zones such as the coral cave and Pirate Island strike me as the ones that stand out the most.

Saying that putting in a loop is straight out plagiarism is just exaggerated. Plagiarism means copying works in their entirety, and normally I'd apply it more for professional works such as a logo or painting. If we're going to call things plagiarisms, then Sonic 1's special stage is a plagiarism of Cameltry (well, in this case it pretty much is...)

In short, my opinion is that you're going too far in trying to distinguish several subtypes of this matter. For me, it's simple: If a game's presentation and flow works in an interesting way that I appreciate, I judge it as a well inspired piece of work. Games that are blatantly cashing in on whatever's popular are extremely easy to identify, case in point: All the goddamn fucking flappy bird clones and then all the Threes! clones in mobile stores.

If there's one place that is 1% originality and 99% plagiarism, that's the goddamn App Store/Play Store.

[Riseodvi]

Everything that we do is inspired by something. Every idea we could possibly think of is rooted in something else, whether we are aware of it or not.

 

The best way to use your inspiration is to blend it into your originality and make it stronger. This is what the best game developers do.

 

The second best way to use your inspiration is to take it greatly and wear it with pride. This is what fangame developers do.

 

The worst way to use your inspiration is to rob from it and discredit it. This is what King™ does.

[Serephim]

I don't even think the brain has a way of creating truly random ideas, everything is a composite of something encountered. I think the thing people mean by "creative" is "unfamiliar". It doesn't have to be something that's completely new, it just has to break a norm and do it well. And people have to think it's actually creative, and not just random and stupid. I don't think I believe in originality that much, I know where all my ideas come from, they're inspired by things I enjoy, and would like to replicate in my own image. I think any artist and musician truly knows where they lift their inspirations from, and if they claim it just comes to them in "true inspiration" or some divine message, they're either lying or not self-aware enough to tell from were in reality they lifted the idea.

 

 

I think this might be the appeal of indie games, since they aren't so bogged down by external sources when it comes to where their ideas come from. But even in the realm of indie games, many (and arguably most successful ones) are very, very heavily inspired. Just look at Shovel Knight, a castlevania clone. Axiom verge, a metroid clone. Or even Freedom Planet, a sonic clone, which we watched come to existence from a literal sonic engine.

 

 

But being able to identify the sources of inspiration don't make them bad games, or devoid of creativity, or their own ideas. So I think the most important thing here is just to make whatever you're doing fun.

 

 

(and cite your sources)

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir Spacebar]

Alright, not sure what I have to do with this, but here are another 2 cents.

 

To be frank, I don't like new ideas. My favourite thing about fan games, is how they use pre-established concepts, and add interesting twists to them. That's how LakeFeperd gets most of his ideas, they're just existing concepts, but the twists give it an illusion of originality. That is what inspired me to create boost motobugs. Also, most of the ideas you do are nearly impossible with MMF2 limitations, m8.

dont argue wit me m8, if u do I wull fin u and I will fkin stab ye I sware on me mum.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Sir Spacebar

[Spykid]

looking at spark, overture and freedom planet, I am beginning to think there are no limitations lol

[Rawr]

Fuck trying to be original. I mean that in the best way possible.

The thing is, as was stated, we are basically a sum of the things we have experienced or been exposed to in our lives. Nothing comes without having something in which we can base our ideas from. In a world populated by so many people there is a high chance that someone else has had that exact same idea or something extremely close to it that you think is 100% original. I think just making sure your end product is something fun is all that really matters in the end. Besides, if we didn't have influences or inspiration we wouldn't have the wide range of properties and forms of media that we have out there now. Things consistently get better through innovation.

The thing is unless you're doing a direct rip/plagiarism, you're still creating an original piece of work. I am heavily inspired by things like Mega Man or the works of Trigger animation studios, but I think my stuff has a lot of my own personal input on it that it's fairly representative of -me-. I think when people try too hard to be totally original they lose sight of why they are making something and the message or intent can get lost, creating something extremely subpar. Not to say shooting for new ideas is unreasonable but I have seen people try to be so out there that it ends up just being superficial garbage.

 

Be true to yourself and really the rest will all fall into place from there. That's how I see it when concerning creative mediums.

[MrLevRocks]

After reading your replies, I'd like to give my 2 cents to you:

 

While all of your concerns/ideas/critics are understandable and correct, I think I'd still stick to my theory. The naming of those wasn't, like you said, completely clear and I'd like to clearify this. 

 

With "original" creativity I ment ideas, I am proud of. Those sure can be already established or based of other's ideas, but the point is, I tried to come up with something.

When I'm in need of an gimmick for a stage then I'll look at stages of similar kind. When I find a gimmick I'd like to use, then I'd take it and make it useable for me. This is what I used to call "unoriginal" creativity and these ideas make me less proud than "original" ones. It sure bends directly with the lending of ideas.

 

Only one thing what I appologize for is the use of the term "plagiarism". Maybe I was to harsh and used a word and/or example that is not fitting. Sure loops have been around for 23 years and haven't changed much, but this is quite how I feel about them. Let's call it "copying" instead. A better example would be the Green Hill Zone Classic from Sonic Generations (3DS). It is the same Zone, with the same layout, the same art and the (mostly) same physics as in Sonic 1. If you count the Spindash then it'll be Sonic Genesis (GBA).

 

That's at least my opinion... Now keep on discussing!

[Serephim]

Fuck trying to be original. 

 

I'd like to find fault with this, but...yeah, pretty much. It's worth it to be true to yourself and not be lazy, but I don't think any good can come from trying to find a 100% unique idea. It's just not going to happen.

 

Even if you're the first to execute it right, it's almost guaranteed you aren't the first to think of it, and likely not even the first to have tried it.

[Jassbec]

looking at spark, overture and freedom planet, I am beginning to think there are no limitations lol

 

Ironically, we're dealing with a bug in MMF2 that breaks the game one you reach a certain amount of actives. MMF2 does have tons of limitations.

 

Speaking of limitations, these can be usually a source of creativity as you try to get around them in many imaginative ways.

 

I personally don't try to be "100 % original" I just grab things that interest me and try to mix them together until they work and look different from the source material/inspiration to an extent. It's like a bag full of candy you really like, there's lots of different brands and kinds of candy, but it all ends up tasting good, and at the end, that's what really matters. (Ignore obvious problems with cavities)

Edited August 16, 2014 by Jassbec

[OverbounD]

Ironically, we're dealing with a bug in MMF2 that breaks the game one you reach a certain amount of actives. MMF2 does have tons of limitations.

 

That sucks, I'm dealing with limitations of GM and processing level tiles myself. Makes me want to start using monogame and C#.

 

I personally do not think that anyone is truly creative. I am of the opinion that all of human invention was inspired by observing nature. I feel everything humans make is derivative from that. In the end I think what is important is not what inspired you but what you do with that inspiration.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

I could go on literally forever about this.

 

I'll try to keep it as short as possible:

 

You can be creative, but you're probably not the first to think of it. There are 7 billion people on this little ball of dirt we call earth. I googled "potato badger" the other day out of curiosity. I found these 2 kids that wanted to make videos or something, and they were called potato badger videos or something. Google it, you'll see what I mean.

 

You can be creative, but everything is derived from something else. Look at english, its the lovechild of pretty much every language ever. Japanese is a derivative of chinese. Puyo Puyo (Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine for those who don't know) is inspired by Tetris (as stated by the creator), but is a LOT different than it! I consider it completely original. I'm still surprised they managed to balance puyo puyo and tetris together in one game in Puyo X Tetris.

 

Also look at comedy. My dad does comedy on the side of his job, and everything he makes a joke about somehow comes from something he's had to go through. For example, he has a joke about me. I'm not sure exactly how it goes, but it goes something like this: My son had trouble with improper fractions when he was in the fifth grade, so I dropped him off at 5th third bank.

 

That's mostly true. I had a lot of trouble with improper fractions in the fifth grade, and I remember my dad joking about dropping me off at 5/3rd bank when driving past it.

 

Everything has come from something. As demonstrated by... Everything. Knight + Shovel = Shovel Knight. It's not "original", but it sure as hell is something no one has ever executed before. Though, I'm sure people have thought of knights using shovels, and I'm sure a real knight has held a shovel before.

 

Well there's my "short", longwinded morning rant. Kthxbye