What if Sega Gave Sonic 4 Another Shot?

[Mr. Potatobadger]

I'm really curious. If sega were to completely disregard Sonic 4, and started over in the vein of the originals, what would you like to see?

 

RULES: Answer the questions in order, with a short response (if you want). You may discuss more in depth AFTER you answer ALL the questions. Unless you have already answered all of the questions, you may NOT make a regular post. This is a survey of sorts, please take it seriously. If you wish to not answer a question, or don't care which choice, please put N.A. by the number.

 

I will try to keep every question no more than one line long. So here we go!

 

1. Should the resolution be the same as the genesis games for the classic feel, or should it have widescreen, ex. the recent Sonic 1 & 2 remakes?

 

2. Should it add 4 more zones, just like the originals? (S1: 6 Zones, S2: 10 Zones, S3&K: 14 Zones) Or keep it at around 14 because 18 is a bit much?

 

3. Should it add a brand new character with a new ability? (Ex. S1: Sonic. S2: Tails. S3: Knuckles & Abilities.) Or should it keep the classic trio?

 

4. Should the sprites be kept similar to S3&K, like Sonic 2 did to 1, or should they be completely new, like Sonic 3 is to 2? (Ex. Sonic 2 = Edited Sonic 1 Sprites. Sonic 3 = Brand New Sprites. Sonic 4 = Sonic 3 sprites, Edited Sonic 3 sprites, or Brand New?)

 

5. Should the graphic style be kept like Sonic 2 (darker colors) or Sonic 3 (lighter colors)?

 

6. Should the game feature act transitions like Sonic 1/2 or act transitions like sonic 3?

 

7. Should the game have local multiplayer/Co-op via seperate systems? Should it have online multiplayer?

 

8. Should Sonic be able to trigger Tails Flying like in the Sonic 1/2 remakes, or keep it like Sonic 3?

 

9. Should tails have his own specific, optional paths that only he can get to?

 

10. Should Knuckles have separate bosses from Sonic (& Tails)?

 

11. Should the game keep the boring tradition of starting with a bland green hill zone clone, or start with something completely new?

 

That's about it. I may add more questions if they pop into my head. I will now demonstrate how you should answer. (spoilered for space saving)

1. Same Resolution as Genesis.

 

2. Keep around 14-ish Zones.

 

3. Classic Trio.

 

4. N.A. As long as they don't use modern sonic, or sprites below S3 for consistency's sake.

 

5. Sonic 2.

 

6. Sonic 3 Transitions.

 

7. Maybe local competition, definitely local co-op, Maybe Online Competition, No Online co-op.

 

8. Sonic should be able to trigger tails flying and hang on.

 

9. Yes.

 

10. Maybe a few

 

11. Something New.

 

[WreckingPrograms]

1. Widescreen

 

2. Keep it around 14

 

3. Classic trio

 

4. Completely new

 

5. Sonic 3

 

6. Transitions like in Sonic 2

 

7. Local co-op, local competition and online co-op

 

8. Be able to trigger Tails flying, and hang on to him

 

9. Yes

 

10. No, there's no need for that

 

11. Start with something completely new

[Riseodvi]

1. Widescreen is beautiful

 

2. I'd be cool with 10

 

3. Classic trio, but honestly, I'd like it with just Sonic

 

4. New, but more towards Sonic 2

 

5. Um... I dunno...

 

6. Sonic 1 & 2

 

7. ALL DAT

 

8. Trigger flying

 

9. Hmm... gonna have to say no.

 

10. Sure, the more the merrier!

 

11. GREEN GREEN YES GREEN MOAR

 

I don't mean to be a DIMPS hater, but seriously, Generations showed that SEGA can revive the classic style way better than DIMPS has. Oh, and Edge of Darkness and Time Twisted are more of a Sonic 4 than Sonic 4 is.

[P3DR0]

1. Widescreen, of course. It makes everything better being able to see further

 

2. Who cares? As long as they are originals and interesing, whatever comes.

 

3. Well, no. It should expand some of the old characters like some of the chaotix or perhaps cream, or whatever.

 

4. New. Gotta make use of the new technology to make shit pretty. Even 3D models are fine, as long as they are well animated and good looking.

 

5. Colorful. Sonic is colorful, even on S2 where it had some darker tones here and there, there was a lot of colorful shit to make it popout.

 

6. I'm a sucker for the transitions in S3, so yeah.

 

7. Sure. Why not? If it helps expand the game and make it more enjoyable why not have it?

 

8. Dunno, don't care. Never used it, tbh.

 

9. Yep. And so should all the characters have.

 

10. If his storyline is different than the others like it was in S3, then sure. If not, why would he be treated especially?

 

11. Traditions are only boring if you do not build up on then. Look at Emerald Hill, it was clearly a Green Hill Zone 2.0, but at the same time it felt different and cooler. Or even Angel Island which took things to a whole new level. Even though it doesn't look very Green Hill Isle, it's pretty much the same trope.

 

---

 

Too bad Classic Sonic is dead and this will never see the light of day... at least not officially.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

I <3 Pedro

[Spykid]

1) Wide Screen

2) Depends, I like lots of levels as long as the last few feel like part of the final chase... eg Sky Chase then Wing Fortress the Death Egg...

 

Those final three with a surprise at the end.

3)Classic Trio + Amy (Sally?) from Sonic CD

4) Classic Sonic, but like generations... make it look good with all the modern stuff around

5) Colourful, interesting, lots of stuff going on

6) S3 style, maybe with a little more story

7) Sure i guess for replay value

8) Depends on level design I guess. Could be useful for tails to reach that extra life (idk how it works, never used it)

9) His own take on the story

10) Yeah, make him hard mode like in S3K

11) Maybe treat the first zone as something brand new, Like final fall from XG

[Serephim]

1. No logical reason to avoid widescreen

2. This is a trend? I don't think it was. S3 and S&K technically had 6/7 each. Wing Fortress, Sky Chase and Death Egg wern't really "acts" if you ask me. It's just a coincidence most likely.

3. Why not

 

4. Advance style. Especially if it was fully animated that way in HD. Generations styled 3D would also work, considering sega would put a budget to this game. (which is laughable.)

 

5. It should be in look good style coloring. 

 

6. Transitions. It was sort of okay in S3, but Sonic and Knuckles got particularly good at this. It provided a sense of adventure and progress.

 

7.Sonic has never had good multiplayer. Unless it's going to be like Sonic Heroes / SA2 and allow you to race the ENTIRE stage on splitscreen, I would never bother with it.

 

8. Don't see why not. makes little difference either way, unless they design levels while treating Sonic&Tails as a single entity.

 

9.He already did, but yes, he should have separate paths like knuckles does. But Tails has no limitations like knuckles does, though, so that's something that would have to be worked in. 

 

10. Dont see why not

 

11. Angel Island, Mushroom HIll, Emerald Coast, City Escape, Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace? I wouldn't call any of those GHZ clones at all. This is specifically a fangaming problem.

 

 

 

And finally, Sonic 4 is the faithful return to roots in the eyes of sega. Or at least, that's the extent of their dedication to it. Between 2 Sonic4 episodes and Generations, It's obvious Sega will never put the resources into researching and designing a true classic sonic game.

 

I don't mean to be a DIMPS hater, but seriously, Generations showed that SEGA can revive the classic style way better than DIMPS has. Oh, and Edge of Darkness and Time Twisted are more of a Sonic 4 than Sonic 4 is.

 

Probably because SEGA uses far more money than DIMPS on any given title.

 

DIMPS is still behind Advance 1 and Rush, probably my 2 favorite 2D sonic games of all time.

 

And while I didn't care much for Advance 3, i don't think anyone can knock the scale of that game. It's about the clostest thing to a Sonic 4 effort i think we'll ever see again.

[Betaman]

1. Considering that the resolution of the Genesis was more of a product of the system and TVs at the time, I would say go widescreen.

 

2. I'd be down for a slightly shorter adventure. Something that while having fewer zones, has more of a Sonic 3 style where they're jam packed with goodies to find.

 

3. N.A. I don't care if they add a dozen new characters, just don't make them stupidly bland to the point of only appearing for one game and then never again.

 

4. Sonic 3 = Brand New Sprites. Sonic 4 = Sonic 3 sprites, Edited Sonic 3 sprites, or Brand New?)

I don't think sprites be used in the sense you're speaking of. Legacy styled sprites are for retro styled games, which Sega hasn't really toyed with doing, to my knowledge. If they were to use them, I'd say something in the vein of Rayman origins where they're hand painted and placed into the game. Would definitely make the game's scenery look different too.

 

5. N.A. because I can't really decide. Both look good, so whatever I guess.

 

6. Sonic 3. I like the idea that the ending screen of each act is the starting point of the next, and how each zone flows into the next.

 

7. What would be the point? Sonic 2 and 3's multiplayer show that it just isn't that good of an idea. Too hard to keep track of the players, with local you have to deal with splitscreen that either cuts your view or horribly shrinks it, and you have the problem of one player either being invincible or having to share rings and items with them.

 

8. N.A. as I haven't played the remakes and don't intend to.

 

9. No. His only real trait is that he's slightly slower than Sonic (if that) and can fly. Can't really do much with that unless there are a lot of vertical shafts.

 

10. Depends on if he would even be in the game at all, and if he would have a separate storyline if he was.

 

11. Green Hill Clone. Every main classic Sonic game's first zone always expands upon the Green Hill Zone idea in a new and exciting way. (Emerald hill with the corkscrews and caves; Palmtree Panic with the giant 3D loop and speed tunnels; Angel Island with the miniboss setting the forest aflame; Mushroom HIll's seasonal gimmick and first ever running boss of the series.)

 

 

Of course, I'm also fine with Sonic 4 as it is. Sure it wasn't very fun to play, but it's definitely an interesting piece of history for both the fandom and Sonic Retro.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

@Betaman: Why not give the remakes a shot? They're great.

 

@Serephim

 

1. I considered it a trend when i was a little kid. (it took me 2 years to figure out that you could plop open the top of sonic and knuckles and stick sonic 3 in there to make one big ol game.)

 

5. lol

 

7. I'm talking like lan business with IP's and stuff. Completely different screens. I wouldn't even want local splitscreen in the game.

 

9. I know he did, but they were always very small. Tails cannot fly forever, but knuckles can potentially climb up forever, provided there are no obstructions. Marble garden (act 2 I think) demonstrates a place where knuckles can get where tails can't.

 

11. True

[Betaman]

They're more refreshing than the typical "emulate the genesis original" or "horribly port the physics and music", don't get me wrong, it's just that I really don't want to spend money on mobile phone games, it all comes down to it that I don't spend a lot of time on my phone anyway, so the money would end up being wasted there.. If they ever get a PC port on Steam, I would definitely consider purchasing them. Then again... maybe I own enough copies as it is.

 

Let's see, Sonic 1 Genesis cart, Sonic 1 as part of the Genesis 6 pack, Sonic 1 3D on the 3DS, Sonic Genesis on GBA, Sonic 1 as part of the Mega Collection, Sonic 1 as part of the DS Classics Collection, that Sonic 1 demo in Gems collection, and I had part one of the shitty java mobile version... Right there that's like 8 different versions of Sonic 1 that I own, but I think I'm forgetting some. I know I've got more ports of the game. Sonic 2 not as much, but I definitely own more than one copy of that game as well.

[Serephim]

@Betaman: Why not give the remakes a shot? They're great.

 

Because they're remakes, and i've been playing these games to death for 20 years now. Do something new

[Riseodvi]

DIMPS is still behind Advance 1 and Rush, probably my 2 favorite 2D sonic games of all time.

Those were good. The thing is that, while the engine wasn't the best, they built the levels in a way that you wouldn't notice it. But when they made Sonic 4 and shoved the Rush style into Classic level design, the akward movement became glaringly obvious. Don't get me wrong, Sonic 4 was okay, but "okay" isn't good enough when it succeeds some of the best games of all time.

 

Wrapped'n BLACK, BLACK, BLACK, Wrapped'n BLACK, wrapped'n black  

[Serephim]

Wont pretend to know what happened between Sonic Advance and Sonic 4 Ep2, but the common denominator in Advance through Rush was the directors and producers credited in wikipedia, including Akinori Nishiyama and Yuji Naka. Of course, Sonic 4 is credited with some other guy and Takashi Iizuka. 

 

Either way, there's no reason to point fingers at DIMPS when it comes to sonic games. I've said this before, but I believe that, if given the chance to design from scratch and an equal budget, Dimps would make a 2D or 3D Sonic game way better than Sonic Team would. 

 

This is mainly due to the growth and quality of the advance series but I saw how DIMPS handled the DBZ fighting series until Spike took over, and in retrospect it was pretty damn impressive.

 

Most of all though, DIMPS seems to be behind more ambitious sonic titles than Sonic Team themselves. Sonic 4 Episode 1&2 was a rape of the classics while Advance 2, 3 and Rush consistently moved forward with concepts and features. 

 

 

Okay im done derailing.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Serephim

[Riseodvi]

*Serephim's post about DIMPS*

That's a good point. SEGA has been known to rush development. It's likely the reason Boom at E3 was so buggy, SEGA probably pressured Big Red Button to get a demo out for E3. Man, now I feel bad about hating Sonic 4... But in the end, it's really about the user, and in this case, the user wasn't satisfied.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Riseodvi

[Miru]

1) Widescreen

2) 18 Zones

3) Classic Trio as starting cast, Amy is an unlockable.

4) New HD sprites, with the option to use old ones.

5) Lighter colors

6) Sonic 3-type transitions

7) Online Multiplayer

8) New paths for everyone

9) Different bosses for everyone

11) Just use GHZ itself.

[DimensionWarped]

1) widescreen

2) 10 zones (more zones tends to mean less love goes into each zone. S3K worked because they did like 6 at a time)

3) Sure, I like more characters. And it's not something that takes that much work.  Sonic Advance handled this stuff just fine.

4) A new 2D style

5) I favor the Sonic 2 style of visuals, but that's just me.

6) Transitions are cool, but they aren't really important.

7) Multiplayer doesn't really matter in Sonic games.

8) Nah, instead just let the player switch characters when the other character is near ala Donkey Kong Country.

9) Character specific pathing isn't really important to me as long as the level design is good.

10) Having different bosses for characters is neat, but I think all of the characters should be able to fight all of the bosses under the right conditions.  Whether that's via a boss arena or what doesn't matter much, but yeah. I don't think character-specific bosses are essential, but they do provide a nice incentive to give everyone a shot.

11) Tradition sucks. I don't think this is really important, but I'd greatly prefer for a game to put its best foot forward by not showing us tropes we've seen a million times.

 

11. Angel Island, Mushroom HIll, Emerald Coast, City Escape, Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace? I wouldn't call any of those GHZ clones at all. This is specifically a fangaming problem.

 

Well, you left out the Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush series, and Seaside Hill is very much themed after Green Hill Zone even if it flows differently on account of being 3D and not having any of the same gimmicks or anything.

 

It's not so much that they are green hill clones either. The various leaf forests and such get thrown into the mix as well.

[MrLevRocks]

1. I'd be for original 4:3 resolution with widescreen as an option. (I don't want me CRT to get messed up)

 

2. I too think it was a coincidence... Keep it at 10 or so.

 

3. Keep the classic trio, coming up with new charakters is hard nowadays... Maybe add old ones like classic Amy or Fang/Nack?

 

4. Honestly I'd be for Sonic1/CD ones, but I think keeping them at Sonic 3K ones are fine too

 

5. Mix'em!

 

6. Sonic 3 transitions, maybe even 2 minute between zone cutscenes?

 

7. No,No,NO! The 1.5 player-mode from Sonic 2 and 3K was fine, splitscreen like in Sonic 2 was great too, but no (real) multiplayer in the story-mode

 

8. Keep it like Sonic 3

 

9. Better not...

 

10. Not always but sometimes (like Marble Garden) I'd be fine with it.

 

11. They're not boring, nor bland. Take Emerald Hill (S2), Leaf Forest (SAdv2) or Turquoise Hill (SChaos) as an example. They are both great, new and still partially GHZ...

 

Edit1: Like already said, the Advance Series is the closest to Sonic 4 that we got and instead of a new game I'd like to have/get "ports" of the Advance Series or the Sonic 4 Episodes on a real Sega Genesis from Sega. That would be awesome...

Edited June 28, 2014 by MrLevRocks

[Mr. Potatobadger]

I appreciate the feedback everyone!

 

In case you couldn't guess, I plan on "re-doing" sonic 4. I dunno what I'm gonna call it, but in the end it will probably be called sonic 4. Expect to see it not this coming, but next sage as "Sonic Unnamed." Yes, literally sonic unnamed. It's kind of catchy IMO.

 

I've pretty much decided what I'm going to do now, lets go over it:

1. Widescreen. The only thing that really would make me not do widecreen is because of the size of boss arenas, but that is easily workable.

2. Around 10 or so

3. Maybe. This is the hardest decision.

4. I will go over the sprite style after this review.

5. I prefer the darker sonic 2 colors, just because of personal preference. (and because it gave the genesis less palette issues, unlike S3K)

6. Sonic 3 I suppose, everyone is mixed on this one, so I will keep it Sonic 3 for consistency's sake.

7. Online multiplayer depends on if I can get it to work. I know it's doable but hard to pull off.

8. I will keep it like sonic 3 for consistency's sake, and to save it for the local same screen co-op (which is automatic, like S2/3)

9. Sometimes I suppose.

10. Yes, because knuckles story is different than Sonic & Tails, but coincides with it.

11. Something completely new.

 

Alright. As for a new character, Zigzax came up with pin the porcupine a few months ago. I came up with his ability, and programmed him into my personal experimental copy of worlds. He can roll indefinitely, and roll up walls VERY easily. If you are jumping up and you press the jump button, you jump down. (for gaining speed when rolling) If you are falling from a jump and press the jump button, you jump up. (for gaps, which will give way to alternate paths, along with rolling.) When he jumps, his scarve trails behind him like tails' tails.

This is him:

 

 

If sonic and co were to get a sprite makover, this would be the style if not sonic 3:

 

 

The story is done. It's super simple, about as "complicated" as S3K's. To sum it up, Super-beat-up Death egg lands on an island, eggman parks base on a volcano there and does evil things, like deforest stuff I dunno. It's up to sonic to stop the evil things I guess. I also have the levels planned out, they're all pretty neat.

 

The first level's foreground is based off of this background:

 

 

It's supposed to be a rocky shore type level, but not beachy.

 

It obviously isn't finished, but I'm working on a map for the island:

 

 

Yup. So the biggest thing is decided if this new character should be included to keep with the "tradition," or if to add a character like amy, or to keep it with the classic trio. I'm afraid to do new character/amy because of people getting all wound up or whatever. Classic trio is the safest. I personally don't mind what the outcome is, I believe it's up to the people.

 

Pin, yes or no?

[Neo_Fire_Sonic]

gimmie shadow and i'll be happy.

[ZigZaX]

What is with you and always using my unfinished stuff... Anyways
1-Widescreen, its always good to be able to see more of the screen.
2-Around 8-10 zones seems good for me.
3-Its always good to see new characters, as long as they feel fresh and unique i wouldn't mind em.
4-if it was SEGA doing this, High-Res sprites would be nice to see, but from the ones youre saying..If i had to choose, id say something newer.

5-Hm...I dunno why, but i tend to perfer darker collors, as long as theyre not dull.
6-Act transitions like sonic 3 definitively.

7-Dont see why not.

8-I always liked flying around grabbing tails, so yes.

9-Yes.

10-Unless tails gets the same treatment, no.

11-As long as the "green hill clone" does something new to diferentiate it from other tropical zones, I could go either way.

Seriously man, you take a short concept sketch i give you and you plop it out there for the world to see lol.

[Riseodvi]

*post thing*

So this was the master plan, PB? Bravo.

I will warn you, though, that directly calling it Sonic 4 probably isn't too wise. Why? AH TEH YOO WAH! Because if someone searches Sonic 4 in Google, they get the DIMPS one, when they might want to just get more info on your game. It can be a sequel all you want, but a more definitive name may be in order.

 

Making a whole new sprite sheet in that style might be a challenge, but if it can be pulled off, that'd be awesome.

 

I'm not sure what to think of Pin. His abilities are cool enough, but he just sets me off a bit from the mere fact that he's an original character. But hey, props for making him more than a recolor of another character.

 

Overall, looks pretty awesome. Don't screw it up.

Shouldn't you bring this to the fangame showcase?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Riseodvi

[Mr. Potatobadger]

So this was the master plan, PB? Bravo.

I will warn you, though, that directly calling it Sonic 4 probably isn't too wise. Why? AH TEH YOO WAH! Because if someone searches Sonic 4 in Google, they get the DIMPS one, when they might want to just get more info on your game. It can be a sequel all you want, but a more definitive name may be in order.

 

Making a whole new sprite sheet in that style might be a challenge, but if it can be pulled off, that'd be awesome.

 

I'm not sure what to think of Pin. His abilities are cool enough, but he just sets me off a bit from the mere fact that he's an original character. But hey, props for making him more than a recolor of another character.

 

Overall, looks pretty awesome. Don't screw it up.

Shouldn't you bring this to the fangame showcase?

1. I agree

2. Sonic is 25% done. Knuckles is 10% done. It's doable.

3. Yea, the fact that he is an original character is weird for people, including myself.

4. No. This is still a survey as ZigZax demonstrated. I still highly recommend people "cast their vote". That post's purpose was to finalize how I feel the game should go. Most of the screenshots elaborated on the numbered questions. In short, this will not become the thread for the game, its still a survey.

 

@ZigZax

 

Dude, this is literally the only pic of yours that I've used of yours, and I've used it like 2 times maybe. It's not a big deal, you had no plans to finish it. It's concept art, it's not meant to look pretty.

[Riseodvi]

Hey PB, not to derail or get caught up in something, I think it's fine to use the concept, but it probably wouldn't have hurt to ask for permission... just sayin'.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

LOL

 

Dude. Zigzax cowrote the game dude. He's the tile guy. We're best buds.

[ZigZaX]

Lol but still, its not something im excacly proud of lol. His design isnt even finalized yet, were not even 100% sure if hes gonna be a porcupine :V and i was just sayin'. But id rather not de-rail the thread.

Edited June 29, 2014 by ZigZaX