The lack of use for higher Language Arts classes...

[TailsSena]

As you can likely infer from the title, this is me bashing the US (or at least WA) Curriculum with regards to Language Arts. (AKA; English)

(Here's my little rant.)

In my experience, the subject is overly drawn out to the point that the last year you learn anything valuable is 8th grade... Even then, all I learned was what a Clause was, and how to write a Book Report. (Two skills you'll almost never need to employ ever again.)

So, let me run down what I remember from each year I've been through...

1st - Learned to read better than I already could.

2nd - Learned to write coherently.

3rd - Learned how to write neatly in Print and Cursive.

4th - Nothing spectacular.

5th - Comprehension.

6th - Higher vocabulary.

7th - Historical Context, and parts of speech.

8th - Clauses and book reports.

9th - We read books.

10th (Honors) - We read even more boring books.

11th.... Oh god... Fuck this.

Currently in 11th, English Literature. AKA, "Review; the class."

Yep, we're studying Capitalization, Punctuation, basic Grammar, and parts of speech.

Worse? Past students tell me that's all we'll do the rest of the year.

To compound matters, our teacher seems to think none of us know any of this, and thus takes it very seriously.

So, my bitching aside... Does anybody know if there's actually supposed to be a point to High School Language Arts Classes? I understand if it's just to keep our knowledge intact since the last time we learned something is four years before we get tested on it in a test that actually matters... But still, I can't help but with for a more... Legitimate reason for this bullshit.

Rant over.

[Serephim]

I agree with you. TBH i don't think there's really a point to any highschool class almost.

By the time i finished the 10th grade i felt like there was nothing Highschool needed to teach me anymore. Felt that way in Middle School too. And i was completely right, because in college they make you do the same shit over again for about 2 years, except you're put in debt for it. The education system is bullshit, especially down here in Georgia. But the whole concept by behind public schools is terrible.

The whole system is designed around grades and passing tests. You listen, regurgitate, and then cram for some stupid test full of useless information that you'll undoubtedly forget, and even if you don't, you're forced to do it AGAIN to acquire a college degree anyway. I think the standardization of schools is just a stupid concept and needs to quickly be done away with in the coming years.

My AP English teacher made a very good point; by the time a kid reaches the 9th grade (hell probably 7th grade) they already have the capacity for your typical college curriculum class. The whole dorm thing, drinking and trying to get laid part probably wouldn't work out too well, but the typical college course is really no different from your typical highschool course. The teachers just aren't required to give a fuck if you pass or not, and you choose your own path and pace for your learning. And thats how it should be IMO. The current public education system fails to account for different types of children with different interests and learning styles, and punishes kids for doing everything that they ENCOURAGE you to do in college. (collaboration on work, group study, sharing answers/research, ect ect). It's just like one big waste of life.

Tests, SAT scores and GPA have no reflection on intelligence or capacity. I view myself as proof to this, and i know many other people just like me. If anything, those numbers show nothing but your ability to conform to and play the rules of a specific system. Im not keeping statistics, but i wouldn't be surprised if the merits of the Education System were just as inflated as our economy.

edit: loltangent

in relation to higher language education, it has its use, just probably not for you. Language Arts were probably one of the few HS classes i could stomach because...well, it can be beneficial to learn how to dig deeper into a language. I was lucky enough to have a VERY amazing 10th grade AP English teacher. If your teacher is just going through the motions, yeah it's boring as fuck. It takes a sort of passion and enthusiasm for something like old literature to make uninterested people pay attention.

[Duckboy]

when you get into college the english teachers there will straight up tell you that everything they taught you in high school was bullshit]

the point of high school english, and a lot of classes, isn't to teach you anything but how to take in information and how to test

also why did you put that behind a spoiler

[AldenT]

Oh, man, I remember those classes too. They started off pretty well and were helpful for learning it all (I actually needed it, since spanish is my native language), but I honestly got more mileage out of Saturday morning cartoons and general reading. Around middle school I was already blasting through these classes, and only remember my high school language classes because our teachers were quirky. The actual learning? Not so much...

Personally, I think it's important to deliver the lessons in earlier levels, while turning later levels into applied language instead. Maybe blending it in with some other boring classes, see if that makes them decent. After all, knowledge that isn't applied is pretty useless, and with high school failing on that end, most people aren't ready for college. Forcing people to go there anyway is just a giant waste for everyone involved.

Maybe I'm just expressing some bitterness at being stuck in college due to several boring classes that I know I won't be using in life, yet I must slog through because the system says so. It's as pointless as it sounds, and you'd think they would have refined this by now. Until they do, the upper classes will have few students and even less professionals.

[TailsSena]

Oh, man... I remember my AP Bio and Human Geo teachers telling me similar things... Kind of... They at least told us that a lot of High School classes are indeed unnecessary.

Though, I can see a lot of use for math up until Pre-Calc and Calculus... In Pre-Calc now, and oh god it's horrible.

And, I put that rant in a spoiler because it was a rant and it wasn't needed to understand my point.

[GSF]

1-College teachers telling you that HS material is bullshit

2-*stare*

3-Proceeds to teach exactly the same basic HS material

Excellent logic!

In my country, education standards are laughable - but now that I read Sena's spoiler list... it actually isn't that different from what we had.

But personally, I liked my Literature classes because I do like to read and write - and especially because I've been ruined by the TVTropes from back then, which was still decent, so I had found a new spin on enjoying fiction.

These "easy as fuck basic classes" are a necessity, because - let's face it - People don't know how the fuck to write or even speak. I had basic literature and language class last semester, and it was ridiculously easy... But still, a good half of the class was pretty much clueless.

It's sad to see it, but it's now "hip" to be an ignorant fuck who spews shit without even knowing what it means (see "SWAG") and to look down on people who appreciate literature.

School shouldn't just be about tests and meeting deadlines - it's about learning on how to learn. Yeah, sounds meta as fuck but it's that way how I see it. That's why modern education strives to be more "process based" instead of test based, i.e. work done around the whole year comprises your main score.

@Sereph: Lol, standarized tests indeed. There is no way to express a person's capability with a number. Intelligence and problem solving are qualitative items, not quantitative.

I've had a great share of teachers, though - and their classes were way superior to the rest. My History teacher, for example: Classes were about debating and interpreting, not memorizing dates and names.

So in the end, it not only depends on how you see the classes, but on how teachers present them to you.

[Epon]

I'm old as fuck and I still find my vernacular and syntax skills growing each year. I haven't read a proper book since high school so I'm not sure if it's because I enjoy language rules (side effect of programming perhaps?) or I retain information when I see/hear it.

Anyway, don't hate on language arts. I used to hate on them all the time, but have learned most of the math and science you learn in HS/college is also useless in The Real World™

[AldenT]

I have to agree on that one. Most of math really is useless for general stuff, and will only really help you on very specific cases where, frankly, you're better off doing something else. Unless you're really into that sort of thing, and I know I stopped taking math seriously after trigonometry.

Still, it's true that some people need these classes after all, and they're valuable to them. The system's gotta reach out to everyone, and it's just a real shame that a lot of students go through classes that are useless in their own lives. Love it or hate it, pretty much.

[Serephim]

It's sad to see it, but it's now "hip" to be an ignorant fuck who spews shit without even knowing what it means (see "SWAG") and to look down on people who appreciate literature.

It's always been like that, kids just find new words. I found it funny that all of that shit basically ended in my High School once the idea of not graduating became a reality. So majority of the "popular" kids were the ones in AP classes with us and loved by all the teachers, and involved in all the school stuff. You still had your regular ignorant people because they dont disappear, but the idea of "looking down" on people ended very quickly once they were in danger of becoming a laughing stock.

Guess it depends on where you grow up. My middleschool was fucking terrible, but my highschool was laid back as hell.

Didn't mean Highschool didn't still feel like a massive waste of life. The ignorant people and idiots get pushed through the system like usual. It was just a slightly more chill waste of life.

[BlitznBurst]

we're studying Capitalization, Punctuation, basic Grammar, and parts of speech.

You must have a really hard time during English class.

[TailsSena]

You must have a really hard time during English class.

Ahahaha, no.

I suppose I get what Alden's saying about the School System having this "Leave no child behind" policy... However, that's what holding a kid back is for, ne?

[AldenT]

Exactly, it's not like school is for everyone but they like to pretend it is. Education is a must, true, but the way the system is laid out at the moment, it's not the best for people that wish to stand out. In my experience, the majority of students are there because their parents said so. They mostly just pass the day by talking to each other, which in turn makes a ruckus and disrupts the whole class - including those that actually take school seriously.

You could say it's holding everyone back, by spreading themselves out too thin they aren't leaving enough for anyone in particular. Sure, they can't fix every problem (most people forget that the real education starts at home) but in general, they need to give the choices out sooner. Careers for those who want to advance, options for those that don't. There's that whole thing about a legal age and how jobs are discouraged until then, but a lot of people would be happier earning something more useful with their time.

[Duckboy]

I'm old as fuck and I still find my vernacular and syntax skills growing each year. I haven't read a proper book since high school so I'm not sure if it's because I enjoy language rules (side effect of programming perhaps?) or I retain information when I see/hear it.

Anyway, don't hate on language arts. I used to hate on them all the time, but have learned most of the math and science you learn in HS/college is also useless in The Real World™

can we all agree that cursive is bullshit cause cursive is straight up bullshit

[TailsSena]

I don't see it that way. I think it's great for confusing all the idiots who can't read it. They'll ask you to "Write it in English..."

To which you can honestly say "I did!" Aaaahahahahaha!

[Serephim]

i never know what the hell my parents write sometimes, stupid scribbles

whatever Final Fantasy had me reading faster than everyone throughout elementary/middle school MMOs had me typing faster than all my computer teachers and my handwriting is just as bad now as it was in the 3rd grade

raised off videogames and saturday morning cartoons, 90s all the way you losers

[TailsSena]

i never know what the hell my parents write sometimes, stupid scribbles

whatever Final Fantasy had me reading faster than everyone throughout elementary/middle school MMOs had me typing faster than all my computer teachers and my handwriting is just as bad now as it was in the 3rd grade

raised off videogames and saturday morning cartoons, 90s all the way you losers

Yup.

I can read Dad's writing most of the time, but you've no idea how many years it took to be able to read Mom's... And now I have people telling me my writing looks like hers.

And then there's my Japanese writing... Boy, have I gotten lazy...

Reading? Not the fastest, but I've see many slower people. Jealous of my Mom though... She reads books in a matter of a few days if she's bored. (~800 page books, mind you.)

Typing... That I'm actually very good at. I can finally type without looking if I want to, and I can almost type faster than my Dad... Actually, I think I can type faster than him... I don't recall him being especially quick around a keyboard. (I type at ~30-70wpm)

[GSF]

Cursive IS bullshit. I ditched it back in 2nd grade. Good thing I did.

My handwriting is microscopical, and at times I write so fast that I can't read it properly... It's not "doctor's instructions" unintelligible level, though.

@Sereph: I owe my English skills to games, movies and books. Media can be surprisingly useful for learning... At least old media. Today's "educative" media consists of treating the viewer as an absolute retard. :\

But yeah, 90s all the way. :]

[BlitznBurst]

Today in English we were taught about the wonders of the semi-colon.

This made me hate English almost twice as much as I do already.

[TailsSena]

The Semi-colon is incredibly easy to use; you use it pretty much like I just did.

[1LT Worm]

Even then, all I learned was what a Clause was, and how to write a Book Report. (Two skills you'll almost never need to employ ever again.)

I'm pretty sure in my college career I've had to read through essays and peer-reviewed studies and write a "report" based on them. Then in the Army, I've read through field manuals and regulations, and had to write memorandums to tell people they absolutely can't do something they "know" they can.

True, it may not have been a "book report," but it's the same basic skill: extracting written information, analyzing it, and arguing a thesis.

It sounds like you learned that book reports are "summaries" in middle school and high school. Trust me, learning to read texts, interpret data, and draw conclusions (all things you do with a book report) will serve you in the adult world.

Also, your quote should read, "Even then, all I learned was what a clause was[omit this comma] and how to write a book report [seriously, we're not speaking German. You do not need to capitalize every noun you come across], which are two skills you'll almost never need to employ ever [superfluous?] again. [citation needed]"

[AldenT]

Also, your quote should read, "Even then, all I learned was what a clause was[omit this comma] and how to write a book report [seriously, we're not speaking German. You do not need to capitalize every noun you come across], which are two skills you'll almost never need to employ ever [superfluous?] again."

Hate to seem rude, but not everyone appreciates the corrective attitude. It's good to know how to write, but hopefully this was just an example. I wouldn't want to think you are one of those grammar nazis.

[Rawr]

I thought it was rather funny haha.

[ila]

Hate to seem rude, but not everyone appreciates the corrective attitude. It's good to know how to write, but hopefully this was just an example. I wouldn't want to think you are one of those grammar nazis.

Dude, chill.

[AldenT]

You know, you're right. Sorry about that, I guess I took this too seriously.

[Delta Hedgehog]

If we're talking about pointless subjects, why the fuck do schools still teach Health class? You're going to take us out of a class where we exercise, to put us in a class to tell us that we need to exercise? Logic at it's finest my friends.