Sonic Infinity [PREPARING FOR SAGE]

[InfinityAlex]

No. Now take your ass back to your thread and update it for once. Go on! It won't bite!

[Guest Mr Lange]

Wait, so you're saying since sega's doesn't give a shit about there sequel names means we have an excuse to make our stuff shit too?

I was about to ask the same thing.

It's one thing to lighten up about these issues but Serephim is giving me the impression that he doesn't remotely give a shit about anything regarding Sonic fangames and thinks that none of us should either.

You guys obsess over the most ridiculous things. Titles, fancharacters, sprite style selection...

Those are significant points to a game. The name, characters, and style of sprites are a huge part of what shapes it. If we're not supposed to obsess over that, then what the hell are we supposed to obsess about? We undertake a project as ambitious as a fangame because we're obsessed about it, and thus we take the defining features of the game seriously. Where the hell do you think you are man? This is Sonic Fan Games HQ. Its literal purpose is everything to do with Sonic fangames and making them, and it's one of maybe three major hubs on the internet where this takes place as a primary focus. If we're not doing that, then this might as well be a general discussion forum. If you don't give a shit about the major characteristics of a Sonic fangame project here, then why do you bother with this site or Sonic fangames at all?

[Mr. Potatobadger]

My signature, Serephim. look at it. Look at the spoiler.

Do it.

[Rawr]

Look, guys, I think fangames are pretty cool. It's why I come around here, to play cool fangames. But I definitely think there is a level of obsession over these that, and I have said this before, is more befitting of original projects. I think the whole idea behind this is to learn how to make a game and/or just do something as a hobby project. I think when it comes to fangames, at the very least, the title and where it fits in the SEGA canon is a little overboard because none of these will ever be official things.

It's not so much that I want to see people make bad things. But nobody is gonna hit it out of the park on their first try and rather than be berated for titles and where it fits within the SEGA canon, whether it was named to be a part of it or not, I'd love to see people actually finish a game. I think at this stage in the fangaming process the title is the least important aspect. It is like announcing a game you haven't really even started development on and giving it a 100% finalized title that will define the entire game. Sure, if you feel it doesn't fit - change it down the line. But I think people get overly critical on these little details that at this point in development shouldn't even matter.

Nothing wrong with a goal, or an intention of what you want to do with the project. But by the end the project might be so far removed from what you set out to make that the title can be changed. I am of the belief just make the game, worry about the title later. Back when I attempted to do a fangame in oh....2009-2010 I think, I simply called my game "Red" (I used to be called MFZB here for those who think that sounds familiar). It was about Knuckles but I had no idea what the final title was going to be just that I wanted to make one. I had graphics and some music (2 levels and a boss theme) and even a new sprite set I was working on for Knuckles, Sonic, Shade, and even Eggman. I was puttin' in the time but needless to say college got hectic and I've flip flopped between what I want to do, as well as finally entering the actual realm of videogames via freelancing (finally) - that making a fangame no longer crosses my mind so it's been canned ever since. So it's not like I wanna see bad fangames, I used to want to make some myself due to being inspired by Sonic Nexus back in 08! I just think the obsessiveness at this stage in the project's lifespan is a little excessive.

And hey, feel free to disagree. It's what makes a community thrive. I just think it should be dialed down a notch. Nothing wrong with critique and striving to make something good but at the end of the day all of this is really just for fun and knowledge is it not? Whether or not Sonic Advance 4 adheres to a series long dead that changed it's style each iteration anyway is kind of silly

[Serephim]

I was about to ask the same thing.

It's one thing to lighten up about these issues but Serephim is giving me the impression that he doesn't remotely give a shit about anything regarding Sonic fangames and thinks that none of us should either.

Those are significant points to a game. The name, characters, and style of sprites are a huge part of what shapes it. If we're not supposed to obsess over that, then what the hell are we supposed to obsess about?

More like, fangames are supposed to be more about an expression of your desires as a fan, not what some random guy thinks you should and should not be able to do based on his own. People can obsess about whatever the hell they want to obsess about.

My issue is what you are obsessing over. Alex has an idea for a fangame, and you're coming at him like his concept in itself is fundamentally flawed. More importantly, the reason why -- as if he's taking an idea from someone who could possibly do it "better". What kind of shit is that?

OK, I appreciate your points, but I want this to be a sequel to Sonic Advance 3, even if it is different.

^This is all that should matter in this topic. If he wants to make Sonic Advance 4 play like Mario 2 with a dubstep soundtrack and motion controls, who is anyone else to tell him not to? Maybe you can tell him it's a terrible idea, and yeah it probably would be a terrible idea, but that really has nothing to do with you. He probably wants you to enjoy his fangame, but at the end of the day he isn't going through the trouble of doing it to please you, he's doing it for himself. And that's how it should be. When you take the concept of "FANGAME" and try to apply lite industry standards to the process, you're corrupting the very essence of what it even means to do one. When you obsess over every little background tile and every little story element, you might as well be making a full-on original title for all your damn troubles. You are obsessing over shit that shouldn't even matter for a hobby of this nature.

Does that mean you should strive to make bad games? No, but who does? It just happens. Your first fangame isn't going to be an internet sensation or probably even be liked, but that should never be a reason for not doing one.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

I honestly love conversations/arguments such as this one

I love all the opinions and points everyone shares, it gives you a good perspective on everything.

[StealthyMC]

I come to this thread to see Alex's progress, but all I see is a debate that started because of the game title. lol

What I would like for there to be discussion about is the game itself. No, not the title or the story or any of that junk, I want to know what the game looks like in motion and how it looks visually.

I think you should take it down a notch Lange, you're taking it a bit too far. I mean, I know the title is what gives the game some identity, but we shouldn't really obsess over a title of a game which isn't even far enough into development to consider things like that. Heck, we shouldn't be "obsessing" over anything that's nothing but a hobby. I'm pretty sure Alex isn't aiming for this project to be some kind of professional IP. We don't know enough about the game yet to start nitpicking small things like a title. And before you retort, yes at this point in making a game, titles are commonly placeholders and not final. Alex has to worry about his game engine and gameplay designs first..

then why do you bother with this site or Sonic fangames at all?

Questioning about peoples' existence on the forum because they don't think of fangames as some professional product just comes off as a bit weird to me. This forum isn't supposed to be super serious all the time with projects, assuming you've looked at threads from a while back.

In short, let Alex do whatever he wants. It's his game, not yours. And remember this: he can't please everybody.

Don't take anything of what I just said personally, Lange. I just wanted to let you know we're not all super serious all the time here, especially with the minor stuff. =)

[Guest Mr Lange]

More like, fangames are supposed to be more about an expression of your desires as a fan, not what some random guy thinks you should and should not be able to do based on his own. People can obsess about whatever the hell they want to obsess about.

My issue is what you are obsessing over. Alex has an idea for a fangame, and you're coming at him like his concept in itself is fundamentally flawed. More importantly, the reason why -- as if he's taking an idea from someone who could possibly do it "better". What kind of shit is that?

Because I am respecting this from within the paradigm of Sonic culture, and I'm going to criticize it on that basis. I didn't say he was taking an idea from someone who could do it better. Better is not the right word here. FITTING is the right word. His title doesn't synchronize with his project and I'm going to make a case about it because that decision will be a permanent fixture in the world of Sonic fangames. If he finishes it and it turns out to be a great game, of which the potential certainly exists, all the more reason the title should be handled right.

^This is all that should matter in this topic. If he wants to make Sonic Advance 4 play like Mario 2 with a dubstep soundtrack and motion controls, who is anyone else to tell him not to? Maybe you can tell him it's a terrible idea, and yeah it probably would be a terrible idea, but that really has nothing to do with you. He probably wants you to enjoy his fangame, but at the end of the day he isn't going through the trouble of doing it to please you, he's doing it for himself. And that's how it should be. When you take the concept of "FANGAME" and try to apply lite industry standards to the process, you're corrupting the very essence of what it even means to do one. When you obsess over every little background tile and every little story element, you might as well be making a full-on original title for all your damn troubles. You are obsessing over shit that shouldn't even matter for a hobby of this nature.

Does that mean you should strive to make bad games? No, but who does? It just happens. Your first fangame isn't going to be an internet sensation or probably even be liked, but that should never be a reason for not doing one.

Nonsense. First of all, I'm not obsessing over minor details, I don't know where that came from. I'm criticizing the big ones. He came here and shared this with us because it's also about feedback. Sure he's doing this for himself, and "this" involves others. I have a lot of experience and I'm going to provide him critical feedback. So you're saying because this is his first project the factors of it shouldn't matter and no one should tell him anything? Part of the experience he is gaining is getting involved. His first project could be really great and if I can pitch in to help that along then why shouldn't I? If you really believe making Sonic fangames is just pissing in the wind and anything goes, then my involvement shouldn't matter to you. Why you even bothered to get in the middle of this is a mystery to me. You clearly don't give a shit either way and you're just harassing me because you thought I was stepping on his toes by criticizing his work. I'm here in the interest of helping him and helping the overall state of Sonic fangames to evolve into something better. We've been doing this stuff for a long time and the Sonic fangame scene has matured a lot from it's crude Games Factory roots. If he wants to dick around with a pointless project "for fun", fine, but it looks like he's taking this fairly seriously and is using it as a learning experience. I've chosen to step in and help with that and my involvement will do no harm. If anything, I'll do some good.

[Jassbec]

Oh damn this topic is HOT.

Anyway, I agree. This name non-sense should stop.

Also, I'm probably going to submit this game's demo on SAGE since Alex's boarding school has lots of internet filters. (Are there any rules against submitting 2 games?) If you don't see it there, then the demo is probably not done.

BTW, I'm not making this, just submitting it.

[Serephim]

His first project could be really great and if I can pitch in to help that along then why shouldn't I?

Because you aren't helping him make his first fangame. You're giving armchair advice, which wouldn't be a problem if you didn't seem to pass it off like it's some sort of important wisdom or something.

Standing over his shoulder and telling him which colors to use isn't doing anything to help him make a good fangame. Just give your opinion and let it go.

Of course this is my own opinion, and im sure alex doesn't need me to fight you over this. And i don't think im going to get very far anyway, seeing as you view this as some sort of cult subculture.

[Guest Mr Lange]

Because you aren't helping him make his first fangame. You're giving armchair advice, which wouldn't be a problem if you didn't seem to pass it off like it's some sort of important wisdom or something.

Standing over his shoulder and telling him which colors to use isn't doing anything to help him make a good fangame. Just give your opinion and let it go.

Of course this is my own opinion, and im sure alex doesn't need me to fight you over this. And i don't think im going to get very far anyway, seeing as you view this as some sort of cult subculture.

Your concern is how I'm "passing it off"? That isn't an actual problem. What's important is the content of my advice. By the way I am helping him with this project beyond "armchair advice", and "armchair advice" alone can go a long way. When you post something on a forum, that's mostly what you're going to get.

I take this site seriously and I take each project as seriously as the author does. More so if I'm interested in it. I care about this subculture because it has a lot of potential and great projects going for it and some of the most talented fans of any game series out there, and I'm a huge Sonic fan myself, as with anyone who would bother to make a Sonic fangame in the first place. If you see that as me viewing it as a cult, I don't think you really integrate with this community well. You seem to be way too far on the "I don't give a shit about any of it because it's just a bunch of amateurs messing with unimportant things" spectrum. Why are you here? You are telling me to not give a shit about what he calls the game because you think Sonic fangames are silly matters and no one should care. Why do you care if I object to his title then? Same difference to you.

[InfinityAlex]

Excerpt taken from the General Document:

"-New shields. Ring shield, which gives the player 10 rings when broken. Crash Shield, which destroys every badnik on screen when broken (can be manually broken with a button press). Gravity Shield, which allows Sonic to stick to walls and ceilings without momentum and allows Sonic do to a moon jump. "

What do you guys think? Also, while I don't like massive debates flaring up like this, Lange is part of the "team" (he's a beta tester and I share my concepts with him for advice), so he's really as much a right to say these things as anyone. Also, Bliz, I've been on hiatus for a few days but I'm picking up the game again, so the first act will be done soon. Then I'll move on to Act 2, then a menu. Then the demo should be ready.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

@ alex

I like the idea

[Apricity]

Personally the ring shield seems really redundant as there's already a monitor you can break to give you 10 rings.

Crash shield seems like a cool idea.

Gravity shield seems cool too but you'd have to be careful with level design to make sure that people can't just break the level with it.

[Hyper Emerson]

The Sonic Jump remake has a ring shield that turns enemies into rings. Maybe you could use that concept?

[InfinityAlex]

Thanks for the advice, Chronic.

@Emerson

Maybe, but I'm looking to create my own brand of shields. Due to shield customisation and mixing, though, the elemental shields will remain in the game.

[Apricity]

I assume the Crash Shield is a nod to Kirby, right?

Ring Shield could double the rings you collect when you're wearing it and then halve them when you lose it?

[InfinityAlex]

@Chronic

Yes.

Double rings and you keep them when you lose shield seems better to me.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

keep them when you lose shield

Erm, isn't that the purpose of a sheild?

[InfinityAlex]

Yes but chronic was suggesting that one should have the rings they've collected with shield should be halfed when the shield breaks.

[Mr. Potatobadger]

Yes but chronic was suggesting that one should have the rings they've collected with shield should be halfed when the shield breaks.

Well if you get double rings while you have the shield and they get cut in half when you lose it, what's the point?

[InfinityAlex]

Exactly.

Also, got some screenies for y'all:

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/9953/hzk4.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img41/2335/v8ks.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/7055/hp1t.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/4962/r2j8.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2699/g911.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/7167/shwv.png

All level art is placeholder stuff.

[Apricity]

Keeping them is fine too. I was just thinking them being halved actually gave gravity to losing the shield. Losing fire/water/electricity shields frustrates the hell out of me because you lose the double jump or the infinite breath or the fire dash abilities you had before. If you lost the ring shield the player would just shrug it off as the effect it had hasn't completely gone. Having half the rings disappear is not only fair but it actually gives the player a bigger reason to be more careful with the shield.

[InfinityAlex]

@Chronic

Point taken...

In fact, I think I'll have it half all your rings when broken, because I'm particularly evil.

[StealthyMC]

@Chronic

Point taken...

In fact, I think I'll have it half all your rings when broken, because I'm particularly evil.

Screens look good Alex! If you need help crafting levels with real level graphics I could help by showing you how to use tiles effectively. Perhaps I could also help with any coding problems you may have too.