Sonic Plots Awry!

[Light The Hedgehog]

So I'm really peev'd right now. So before I start my rant I'll explain this topic. I've found that plots, character arcs, story telling and progression are really starting to split the fanbase. (As if they weren't before, hah) So I wanna know you guy's opinion on current writing, stories, character portrayal, and more. And how it could be better.

So I'll start. Note I'm posting on mobile and don't feel quite well. (Darn snow, heh)

A topic over at Retro really got me riled up when some people said they liked the, in my opinion bland Sonic we have now. i can't link to it cause the clipboard's being a b--. So basically I feel stories nowadays don't have any build up. Its just like oh well we know we got to defeat someone. Lets go do it. Bam we made some jokes and we beat em. I'm content with this but imo it's nowhere near good story telling. It doesn't get me involved. I'm no longer Awesome blue hedgehog but rather boring dude watching Sonic be a jerk off. Not saying he is completely ruined but.. all he does is make jokes now. It only focuses on one part of Sonic and that alot of the other characters feel too.

And as for story itself theres no reason I'm playing the game besides gameplay. Which is the most important part, but I feel feel so uninvolved that I feel uncompelled to BE Sonic. And this is where I give SA2 credit. While it was a mediocre story in reality. I still loved it because I felt like I just rocked that egg golen rather than, "Oh hey there goes Sonic beating Egg Man again." I'm fine with them lowering the in your face plots but I can't really feel as if they even try with such pathetic stories. But I do understand that they're trying to play it safe. Which... is boring.

So please Share your thoughts and let us have some friendly debates. Can't wait to here what you guys think. Also if you search "Sonic Dissected" episodes 4 and I think 6 or 8 almost sum up my opinion. Note ALMOST.

[lone8643]

I started feeling the lack of buildup in Generations. I remember being so excited about the story and all the classic/dc/modern/boss trailers, and then the game stopped having cutscenes after chemical plant and it was like where'd the story go? The cutscenes that did occur after made me think I was watching Blue's Clues or something. "Sanic I can't find out whats going on. Audience, do you know what happened? That's right, we're time traveling!" because that doesn't seem to be a thing ever. For all the build up to the Time Eater fight (the silence as the FF clocks tick, super sonics defeated, all of sonic's friends offering to help like it's End of the World), there was no real payoff other than "Hey Listen! Warping Arm Attack, Get a load of this!" I expected a grand finale instead of chasing Time Man through the Sonic Heroes special stage.

 

Colors I admittedly enjoyed the story. I liked that Tails had an attitude again, but I found the Yacker jokes to be incredibly lame...Some things don't need to be said out loud, Tails.

 

Overall, I hate how the current writers EXPLAIN everything as it happens. I want this to be more Hangover-style. You try to figure things out before the denoument. Space Elevator in Colors - could have been before the main story...has no place after they're there (This example itself is out of place). Sonic Lost World Jurassic Park - I wish they had left "No mr. prower, we expect you to die!" on a cliffhangar, then had us see mecha tails and be like nuuuuuuu...but no! they ruined that chance! No SA2 Dark story omg sonic asploded for you!

 

For the reasons of terrible writing in recent games, Sonic 06 is actually growing on me, and I already liked that game to begin with::gasp::. You wanna know why? That game didn't play it SAFE. It tried to be more than just a speed demon. It was a speed demon with flaws, that knew it couldn't be a jackass all the time. That and Melponto(sp?) has the one clip w/ Eggman in a sombrero. With that said, I think I'm gonna play '06 today. 

[Serephim]

I think they finally realized how stupid it sounds to try and force a blue bipedal hedgehog into the position of always being the world's only savior. It would work just perfectly if Sonic still lived in the SatAM world full of animal races. But it's only ever going to draw funny looks when it's applied to the real world. Replace Elise with Sally though, and it isn't quite so hilariously stupid.

 

Of course Sonic has really never been that awesome at plots. Genesis sonic games were about as simplistic as they could be, the difference being that the gameplay WAS the plot. They never had to sit you down and create dialogue in order for you to understand or care, because in the end they didn't need to.

 

 

You have to generate some kind of suspension of disbelief, and that's really hard to do with colorful talking animals that have mouths protruding out of the sides of their faces, especially if you want to make some grimdark plot that's supposed to evoke some kind of emotion.

[GSF]

I don't need stories to be engaged. Adventure and Adventure 2 began with the storytelling approach, but it wasn't bad. I still don't like Shadow and MARRRRRRRRRIAAAAAAAAAA, but man I felt hyped up back when I was about to fight Perfect Chaos for the first time. In short, if I have a way to skip scenes, I don't mind stories.

Regardless... what I like about Sonic games the most is definitely not the story. When I booted up Colours and hit A at the title screen, I was greeted with "Tropical Resort Act 1" right away. That was simply awesome. After a good while we finally get a glimpse of the story, and I found it decent. The main story was okay, but what I liked about Colours the most was the atmosphere and Eggman's in-level quotes. I also liked Generations, but found the challenge levels to be inflating and irritating filler. Oh, and the final boss was crap. All the characters and their goddamn speeches, it felt like Persona 3 all over again. Colours kicked ass with its excellent final boss remix, though.

I don't need grimdark time-traveling hedgehogs. Just give me fast action, glitch-safe gameplay, and cool bosses to beat up. I won't ask for music because the usual is that no matter how crappy the game is, Sega manages to have great music.

As for Mario Lost World... at least the soundtrack's okay.

[Nemox]

I love the complex plots the earlier 3D games had, but they do feel rather tired and forced.  I think a lot of this gets into showing the story rather than telling.  Cutscenes are all about telling, but story can be conveyed in more ways than just that.

 

Consider CD with its time-traveling element.  In the past, nature is harmonious.  In the present nature is being threatened by technological threats that weren't dealt with while they still could be.  And in the future, technology has run so rampant, even Eggman's machines are in decay and disrepair; a very grim scene.  But if you change things while they can still be changed, nature and technology can exist in harmony with each other in a Good Future.  This is a beautiful story that even has a message for us in the real world, and it required no cutscenes.

 

 

I think this side of storytelling was well-used in SA2, if perhaps for different purposes.  Shadow's electronic (Trance?  EDM?  I'm bad with these...) music really expressed the discord in his mind.  The beat is "lifeless" and perpetual, though the life is still behind it in the vocals, whispering a humanity still deep inside.  This fits Shadow's character so well, as he trudges on in the face of all the pain of losing everything he loved.

Heh... even that "I'm the coolest," line showed that he still had some personality behind all the angst.

[Light The Hedgehog]

Yes. This is what I was trying to say through my first post! While cutscenes aren't needed when done right they make you feel so much more enthralled to beat that level! It can increase or decrease how much fun you have with it. Even pantomime like Classic Sonic, if done correctly, can convey emotion and make a level outstanding. Okay not really, but it does really help. Like Crazy Gadget. Also if there were more build up in EggmanLand I probably wouldn't have been AS frustrated. Like Sonic actually being concerned rather than bash Egg Man. Like whatever he's says about toys. I'm like' "Yeah watch me breeze through this-- rgghh!" In Crazy Gadget its like, "Oh shoot I gotta save Amy I better be prepared for Egg man's best!" Or even Final Egg. He just defeated Chaos, presumably once and for all then we see Egg Man and I'm like, "Oh what is he upto now!" And recently they try to tie in real life shortcomings with Sonic. Which is fine. But I kinda wanna play Sonic to be in this BIGGER THAN REAL LIFE environment. I don't know. Maybw thats just me though.

[Light The Hedgehog]

Waring this is a less actual facts, more stupid. Just pass this up unless you wanna hear my 2:00 A.M. brain go

 

Recently I've realized why SA2 gets so much flack and why I like it's STORY more others. And here's the sole reason... I don't look at all of the short-comings and little nooks and crannies! But not just this but I take the story for what it is. People say it hasn't aged well but when compared to today (IN MY OPINION) they fair about equal. Lost World essentially brings this sort of I want to tell a story, like SA1 and 2, but does it fairly sloppy. Not saying SA's don't have their sloppy-ness also.

 

Before this though, lets look into an often brought up. DARK stories. Here's my two-cents. I don't think SEGA can get away from dark or partially dark stories. Take Unleashed for example. The World is gonna end, no matter whatcha do but, it's not time for it to happen yet. Well that doesn't make me feel good. And the whole Chip rebuilds isn't any more comforting. Now the presentation makes it more light-hearted but also really breaks the serious scenes dramatic bits. (By presentation, I mean the sound effects and wacky poses and facial expressions) It's still overall a dark premise for a story. Now most children shows are this way, so I'll cut it some slack. But.... Sonic is not a children's show. Sonic conventions and meet-ups are filled with adults from what I see in videos and kid's (mostly) are more interested in darker things anyways. So now the plot is almost not liked for anyone. But as we see people do indeed like it. Even I can [d]find[/b] enjoyment out them. Mostly the character interaction, but almost never the actual story. Lost World is about Eggman himself trying to kill the world from the inside out! Is that not dark, of course as I said before though the presentation of the story makes it all "fuzzy" and "light-hearted". I can deal. But please don't use this as an argument of why older stories are bad. (Besides Shadow and 06 I guess) Yeah that's about all here. The point of this whole rant was to say, "Please don't use this as an argument."

 

Anyways why I think SA2 is good is because if you stop looking inbetween all the cracks and trying to wander in the fog it's actually... well, good. Most people don't look super deep into Lost World, do they? No. Not unless there trying to make it sound good. Now there is a crowd of SA2 enthusiast who do the same but those are more likely to be "blinded". I when writing this, try not to be "blinded" as much as possible. Now lets look at SA2. Sets up a happy light-hearted intro. Sonic busting out a helicopter makin' okay jokes. Eggman bustin in stuff, like "Doctor is doing the bustin up and not Sonic? Heh, cool." Skate down a city, and plot builds up and gradually introduces plot points and it gets a... (It's called  pay-out, right?) pay-out. A nice finish per-say. It gets a conclusion, a purpose to be there.

 

In Lost World we get Deadly Six. There not built up well and definitely don't give pay-out. Are they dead, alive and got away? No answers, nope. Their just poofed away. In SA2, you get this cannon. Build-up: It blows up part of the moon, time limit to stop it, adds gameplay reason to feel like your Sonic. The counter argument is probably the Energy sucker but it's not built up as MUCH. It is built up but not to the point where I'm rushing to save the world. Sonic isn't concerned about the thing, he's concerned about Tails getting kidnapped. Makes sense but after he saved it's not like he's super-pumped no. He's done this before, he doesn't show that he's worried. He's SUPAH SONIC, right? This is where character flaws come in. Instead of having deliberate, Tails is in danger. They could have much more effective cut scene, where Amy says kick some butt. But what does he do? Not get mad, or sad. Just goes back to adventure. In SA2 while the animation wasn't super-awesome, we still see him throw his fist and have an angry expression when the cannon blows the moon in two. This bugs me because it's a really big defending point of Lost World's story. "Sonic actually has flaws now! It shows he's not always perfect!" Well it fails at doing so if you ask me. (Okay not fails but at least doesn't get it right) Who really wants this super flawed, almost to the poiny of being a normal human Sonic? I like him because his non-human like attributes. Of course he can still have these flaws but not so much to the point where it's obviously trying to point out, "Hey guys! We did make Sonic more imperfect! Can you see how!?" Like it's thrown in my face like a dirty towel. I know it's dirty, don't make me sniff it too. It mostly is because of looking in these small crevices that people point out, "How'd Gerald upload the death threat? Why does Robotnik have a shuttle in his base?"

 

Now on to the less ranty version:

 

Sonic Lost World:

Pros:

-Story has somewhat evolved from Generations and Colors.

-It actually, well.. TELLS a story 

-"Sonic has characters flaws"

-The superb character interaction

 

MIDDLEGROUND:

-Eggman. (He's good. HE can almost manipulate people as well as SA1, and almost has that superiority back) But not that well. Um Eggman, he's still regaining that lost razor edge he had when doing things. Like when used to just snatch emeralds and not give a speech about doing so)

 

Cons:

-The plot rolls itself out before you're even wondering what it's about. Two levels in and you already now everything. Now we're just going along giving cutscenes as a reward for finishing levels. While nice for a "reward", stories shouldn't unfold if you're actually trying to tell a story.

-Sonic has super forced emotion, so does Tails. Eggman naturally goes into his whole blerb about strangling Dsix. He trust them, they betray him, he naturally reacts. (That last part is technically a Pro)

-No "proper" pay-out. World sucking machine. Well Tails would stop it either way as long as Sonic beat the badniks. Tails isn't transformed because we obviously see him tinkering with the thing. So I already knew he'd be alright before it even became a proper plot point. Sonic doesn't react to machine because he's too busy crackin' jokes. (at inappropriate times)

 

Sonic Adventure 2:

Pros:

-The "gist" of the plot gets you invoked to play, if you weren't already.

-"Proper" pay-out. Cannon gets good build up, Sonic reacts to it's presence, becomes time-trial, when finished we're like "Yeah I'm a beast, just blew up that cannon"

-Mostly natural emotion, as I said before in earlier post. You see Sonic react to say- Big Foot Boss. He's angry, cracks a joke that's more like, "i'm sick of game your game lets get it over with" to show he's actually upset at the military. (His face mostly, I will admit that if I just heard the line I could get it confused with playful joke. But it's well enough delivered, to where you can almost imagine its actually an angry joke.)

-Knuckles has purpose. While still shoe-horned in, they still gave him a reason to be there.

-Jokes, while not super hilarious, they don't come at the expense of tarnishing a characters rep. They add to their personality.  

 

Cons:

-Character interaction can be kinda iffy (At least Lost World shows the Sonic/Tails being an actual buddy/friend/brother type thing)

-Plot Holes (Because forebid they might of had to shoe-horn Tails in, or that they didn't explain something thoroughly That was kinda a childish sorry)

-Ideas not introduced properly (Geralds tape thing. The Biolizard, because that picture doesn't really count. Sonic learning Chaos Control.)

 

 

NOTES:

 

Remember these are my personal opinions. 

I probably should have waited till the morning when I was a tad less tired.

You can indeed criticize my work by these same things I pointed out. Go ahead.

If think I could have more accurately judged something, post it! Lets see if we can try an make some good ideas for future plots.

Enjoy my almost in-biased, yet still biased work.

 

Okay so here's the point of this:

 

Sonic Adventure Stories Vs. The Pontac/Graff Sonic Stores:

 

Sonic adventure titles had good story telling properties, while not the most polish well put together, they still actually told you something. They let you accomplish things as the player. Yes they story. When looking into all the foggy spots, people begin trying to pick it apart and those who are against it, use as much of its shortcomings to try and make sure it's received as bad. Even though it has lots of good in it. (Insert awesome, metaphor, analogy, or thing here.)

 

Sonic's New Stories have a good sense of being put together well. Like, no plotholes, solid plot to advance the characters through stages. But. It's not all that well told. Lost World fails simply because of it's unnatural character development and over-explaining jokes, but not explaining actual plot enough (Lost World). But! In cases they also over-explain both jokes and plots(Colors). 

 

Now that's just story. In both the character interactions are great at some points and just lack at others.

 

Edited January 13, 2014 by Light The Hedgehog

[Abcormal]

Now, let's not forget about Sonic fanfiction.

 

While I admit that there are some bad examples, such as hackneyed romance stories and high school AUs, there are quite a few shining examples of fanfics that expand Sonic's worlds, and arguably do a better job at storytelling than the current game's writers.

 

Look at Dan Drazen's SatAM fanfiction, for example. There are quite a few more examples of good fanfiction that take place in every universe from SegaSonic to Underground, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

I'm thinking about writing some Sonic fanfiction myself. But I'm trying to find the time and willingness to do so.

 

What I'm saying is, maybe Sonic games need that kind of high-quality storytelling. I don't know. All I do know is, this debate on whether Sonic games need good stories and plots is far from over.

[Rawr]

Sonic plots have pretty much always sucked aside from the old-school titles I guess (if they qualify as having plot haha). I mean not that the classic titles were some shining paragon of storytelling, but it was always simple enough - Eggman is building a giant Death Star knockoff go stop him. Sonic 3 and Knuckles gave you -just- enough of a hint of progression to make you want to keep going. When I was younger I used to enjoy the stories of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 and subsequent games, even at a point in my teens when I was like "Sonic 06 is so COOL!" (the darkest period of my life). The thing is now that I've grown older I've formed the opinion that those stories absolutely suck (as well as the games themselves kinda but that's another topic altogether). The writing is poor and incredibly cliche, turning a game about a blue hedgehog who runs fast through a whimsical world into a soap opera. It really wasn't the greatest move - although to its credit Sonic Adventure 1 at least tried to be a mix of that and more real world sensibilities.

However things post Sonic 06 haven't been the greatest either. I didn't mind some of the shallow dialogue and stuff from Sonic Colours at first - mostly because I felt it was a nice needed change of pace to have a simple plot and some different character personality traits getting the limelight. While some of it felt forced it was never truly overbearing until we get to the travesty of Lost World and it's completely unfunny, stupidly written plot with the blandest characters this series has seen in a long time. We all complain about getting one crappy new character in a new game but here we are with 6 of them and they all suck. I omit Generations from the list because c'mon let's be honest here it was a game built to be a glorified level select as a tribute to the series' history and I'm pretty sure we all knew that going into it. Sonic Boom seems to be continuing this trend of "horribly unfunny sonic" and I can't tell if I like that better or the melodramatic Sonic because I kinda don't care for both?

As for whether or not the games need good plots - sure why not. Why not have decent writing. If you're gonna put it in there you might as well make sure it's good or what is the point? There is definitely a lot you can do with this franchise, none of it has to be deep or complex or on some sort of grand scale just for it to be good - merely it needs to be entertaining. But I am not sure if Sonic Team has the know-how to make this series have a good plot since it's never been one of the series' strong points. I hate to bring it up because I'm not really a huge Mario fan but look at how well those games have done in entertaining the player on a paper thin plot, and when they do inject it with some sort of crazy plot (Paper Mario games for example) they end up being funny and entertaining. Sonic just has this aura no matter the era of trying too hard, although I guess in a sense that's been a part of the character's DNA since day 1 since he was the cooler alternative to what was out there. The series has a real lack of identity outside of its old trademark visual style and nobody knows what the hell to do with it because of that it seems. The thing is they need to just stop trying so hard, stop trying to reinvent the wheel as far the series goes and just hire better writers. I will add though the only writing in the series I've enjoyed consistently is whenever Eggman is involved.

[GSF]

even at a point in my teens when I was like "Sonic 06 is so COOL!"

Pftttt-ahahahahahahah. Makes me glad that back then, I had no chance of getting a PS3/360 at the prices back then, so I didn't even have to look at said game.

I enjoyed Colours a lot, especially because it toned down on the EDGEhog and the MATURE shit. I also enjoyed Madworld's silliness, courtesy of the same people.

Adventure 1 was okay enough, 2 marked the start of the EDGEhog, but nothing compares to 06.

I just want a fun game with good level design and well made bosses. I don't need cutscenes - if the game progresses by Act1-Act2-Boss-Act1 I'll be happy. Colours nailed it when as soon as you pressed A on the title screen, you get thrown right into the game. That's what I want again.

On a side note, the Advance titles were great as well - no long cutscenes, just levels and more levels. 3 even managed to add Sonic & Eggman cooperating against the true final boss (classic super sonic in space, etc etc), which I thought was pretty cool back then. It also felt nice seeing Emerl again after Battle.