The limits of a fan

[AldenT]

I know I once said that I would support just about anything, and I've found a few other projects to look into. I also know that most people are happy with just fan art as support. But is there a point when that doesn't cut it? What do you do then? Do you simply know your place and let it sink in, or do you try to join the experience?

I've seen a few examples, like how big companies hire fans as part of their staff, while others simply take their ideas into mind and leave it at that. The former seems like a dream come true, but what's the catch? Would it be considered favoritism? What about the reactions of other people to the decision of picking up some fan off the streets?

Sorry if all these questions seem kinda out of place here. I guess I'm just confused about when a fan stops being just a supporter and wants to be more to stand out from the cheering crowds. I know I wouldn't want to be just another head in the bunch. Is there anything wrong about feeling this way?

[Serephim]

im sure alot of people here feel that way. IMO if you feel that way, then just get up and create a fangame. Regardless of how it looks or anything, if it's fun, it'll be recognized, probably by word of mouth alone. We all throw around alot of really good ideas as fans around here, and probably have done more research on classic Sonic gameplay than Sonic Team's current staff have themselves. But throwing around ideas doesn't make one materialize out of thin air. The more I work on this project i started, the more understand how huge gap between a good concept, an engine, and an actual videogame really is. If you want to get your head out of the crowd, then you have to get your head out of the crowd.

As for being more than a Fan...i don't really know. I dont think Sega has much use with even the most talented of our bunch, outside of maybe using us for ports like they did Taxman...and all he did was emulate the engine of an older game. Truth is, i really would have no aspirations to be taken into SEGA because i know how terribly slim the chances are. They're japanese, and their main operating branch is japanese. People here tend to be more focused on a more classical, rich Sonic Experience, while they're focused on selling as many copies of their next title and appealing to as many new fans as possible. They have artists, they have programmers, they have brainstormers, a DAMN good musician team, localization peeps, ect ect ect and PLENTY of ideas to throw around among eachother, all while keeping budget and whatnot in mind. Picking someone from SFGHQ would most likely be a downgrade.

If I were a fan trying to be hired by a group of developers, i'd look more in the direction of comapnies that are a bit closer to arm's reach. I think the most likely spot one could aim for in a company like Sega is some kind of PR dude. A like-minded group of devs could be a good target too.

[AldenT]

That does make a lot of sense. I'm not really gunning for a position at Sega, more like I'm aiming at a project right here. But I see what you mean, I know I tried to make a game once. Part of the reason I failed was because I didn't really have a fandom or audience to shoot for, and though I do have ideas and skills (if you need proof, I uploaded some here: http://macroller.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=scraps ), my main problem is motivation.

Yeah, I agree that Sega's team is spot on, so I set my sights on a fan project, even if it's one that might not need me. I'd definitely like to stand out from the crowd, but going all the way on my own isn't a very good option for me. I'm much more comfortable supporting stuff that's already gotten underway and just needs a touch or two to be better. Of course, I don't want to forget that the developers of fan games are people too.

I guess in this sense, I'm not just looking to admire a project, but to belong somewhere. It's not just design and production, it's friendship too. I'm thinking too much about being something I don't have what it takes for, but then those developers are the ones who would make the call, not me.

[Serephim]

That does make a lot of sense. I'm not really gunning for a position at Sega, more like I'm aiming at a project right here. But I see what you mean, I know I tried to make a game once. Part of the reason I failed was because I didn't really have a fandom or audience to shoot for, and though I do have ideas and skills (if you need proof, I uploaded some here: http://macroller.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=scraps ), my main problem is motivation.

Thats kind of what i mean. It's good that you can do some conceptual drawings but almost everyone on this forum board can do that to some degree. Hell i think i even have a topic open with some pointless scribbles down. And I say they're pointless because they are. If you just write them to daydream about an application then they'll always be a daydream. And making excuses as to why you can't make them into something is also just an excuse.

Brainstormers, concept art pictures, graphical tiles, engine tests, all are a dime a dozen. Along and any other ingredient we may have lying around that just sits in a folder without going anywhere waiting to be "scrapped" as if we actually started in the first place. IMO whatever you do, just make you get in it for the longhaul and keep at it. If you wanna belong in something then you should just get into something. Some people around here enjoy the team gig, some rather work alone. There are whole engines lying around, tutorials as well as sprites and backgrounds from all over the internet. Someone with finished products under their belt will always look more achieved than someone with a bunch of neat little 5 minute concept demos.

Also....know that not many developers, even small little fan developers, want another "idea maker" on their team. Past a certain point there's no use for you anymore, especially when the programmer, artist, musician and everyone else has ideas too. You have to be able to do something to really belong to something. Wanting to be part of something great is natural, but you can't expect to just float there. You've gotta make moves, and that means not using easy excuses like "im not good enough" to justify not doing anything.

[TailsSena]

Oh, Sereph never said SEGA's staff was perfect. Nobody would ever say so, but SEGA seems content with them for now.

And if you're looking to be part of a project, just look around and ask. You've posted more than 10 times, so you can send PMs if posting on a project's thread is a little too out there for you.

I wouldn't mind a little help brainstorming a plot outline or something for Pokemon Teal/Amber.

[AldenT]

Thats kind of what i mean. It's good that you can do some conceptual drawings but almost everyone on this forum board can do that to some degree. Hell i think i even have a topic open with some pointless scribbles down. And I say they're pointless because they are. If you just write them to daydream about an application then they'll always be a daydream. And making excuses as to why you can't make them into something is also just an excuse.

Brainstormers, concept art pictures, graphical tiles, engine tests, all are a dime a dozen. Along and any other ingredient we may have lying around that just sits in a folder without going anywhere waiting to be "scrapped" as if we actually started in the first place. IMO whatever you do, just make you get in it for the longhaul and keep at it. If you wanna belong in something then you should just get into something. Some people around here enjoy the team gig, some rather work alone. There are whole engines lying around, tutorials as well as sprites and backgrounds from all over the internet. Someone with finished products under their belt will always look more achieved than someone with a bunch of neat little 5 minute concept demos.

Also....know that not many developers, even small little fan developers, want another "idea maker" on their team. Past a certain point there's no use for you anymore, especially when the programmer, artist, musician and everyone else has ideas too. You have to be able to do something to really belong to something. Wanting to be part of something great is natural, but you can't expect to just float there. You've gotta make moves, and that means not using easy excuses like "im not good enough" to justify not doing anything.

That's true, I'm definitely at the daydreamer phase right now so I'm worthless to the project I'm gunning for. And that's fine, I can't just pretend I matter when I got nothing to show for it. I think I can come up with something in the coming months, though. I AM pretty fresh in all this so maybe I was just fooling myself into thinking it was that easy to be a part of something big. Thanks for snapping me out of it.

Oh, Sereph never said SEGA's staff was perfect. Nobody would ever say so, but SEGA seems content with them for now

Oh, whoops. That's it right there, they seem to be confident in their staff even if times are pretty hard for SEGA right now. If they really were perfect, they wouldn't have as much trouble in the first place. 83;

[lone8643]

I feel like I've gone through a similar problem. For the past 2 and a half years (feels more like 5) I've been trying to get noticed in what I like to do. The attempt led to me leveling out at mediocrity when I was inches away from something good. I figured I was wasting my time at that and took my skills elsewhere. I was hired as an indie game tester, but for what? My own ideas for the game were let alone in favor of the creator's. Granted, it was still a blast and the creator did listen to my input more than I could ever ask.

Overconfident, I asked a certain someone if they needed any help, and I was told my skills weren't needed, despite having what I thought was a natural talent for breaking games. I'm going somewhere with this; bear with me. So, I figured it was time to take another avenue: I started making some concept drawings, a storyline, started researching how to make a game. That's where I am now.

My point now is when you hit a roadblock in getting noticed-ness, try to develop other skills that you think will help you. Be in it for yourself more than to get noticed, and at some point someone will notice you. I never knew people recognized my work til ages later. Anyway this is very rambly because I've just noticed I have 2 minutes to take a shower and be at work bye

dunno maybe you're bein jelous of sega's staff. don't be. you may go even further beyond them if you employ a positive attitude.

[AldenT]

I was actually jealous of the project I was going for, but I didn't mean any harm with my request. It was just a pathetic plea of mine anyway, since I gave them no reason to accept me and that's how people work in the real world. Even if I was a nice guy, what skills do I bring to the table? Personally, I feel I can help them improve some of their gameplay, but how exactly?

My drafts were mainly drawn to present my idea to others and see if they would like to work on them with me. The usual reply I got was that they were nice but there was no real interest since, well, I had no game to show them in. By now I'm thinking of borrowing an engine and working my ideas there, give them a playable taste of what's to come.

I wouldn't mind if the project staff asked me for help as a beta tester, I'm so okay with that. But I gotta show them that I know about video games... after all, with the massive amount of fans they got, I need to stand out from the crowd so they'll look at me. I need to do this for myself, true, I guess I just haven't found a dream to chase in a long time.

[Duckboy]

The limit of a fan is the ceiling badum-chh

thank you i'll be here all week

[lone8643]

Duckboy reminds me of friend of mine, with the glitch-hunting skills and the ridiculous humor. Are you from New Zealand?

[TailsSena]

The limit of a fan is the ceiling badum-chh

thank you i'll be here all week

[Duckboy]

wait is this tumblr now

tailssena why are you consistently the worst poster in the entire world

[TailsSena]

Wait is this tumblr now?

If you wish it so.

TailsSena' date=' why are you consistently the worst poster in the entire world?[/quote']

Not totally sure that deserves an answer... But I shall offer one anyway.

My best guess is this: You're a Troll (or you're at least trying to be), and I'm a curt, slightly serious sort of guy.

And I don't suppose it helps at all that we've both been so cold to one another all this time. Have to wonder why that was the case to begin with, but hey.

[AldenT]

I dunno, I found Sena's reaction to be funnier. Consistent, maybe, but I wouldn't say worst.

[Duckboy]

that was a rhetorical question and you answered it anyway aaaaahhhhhh

[Rawr]

I don't do a ton of fanart, so I'm a pretty shitty fan in that I don't really express my love of the things I like via the one thing that I do better than anything else (which is draw). I mean I used to do fanart by the bucketloads until I realized I was wasting time I could be using on projects of my own.

I think for me, I'm slooowly crossing over that threshold where I am getting to actually know some of the people I've liked for a long time, or people whos work I am a fan of coming to me and telling me they dig my stuff. It's a really strange sort of transition right now.

That said I am kinda having troubles with figuring out JUST what this topic is about, but what I -think- it is about is kinda hard to apply to me I think. I've been so far removed from a lot of fandoms that I used to be a part of. I am a huge fan of a lot of things but I've now distanced myself from almost every single fandom, Sonic included in that since I split from the SSMB a few months ago. I only stick around here because I like you guys haha. I'm more of a fan of individual comic book artists more than anything these days, and getting to know a few of them is a plus so...

[AldenT]

Thanks for getting back on topic. Yeah, the underlying message is, don't sell your soul. There's nothing wrong with liking something so much, as long as you don't forget that YOU are something of your own. I wouldn't say fanart is a waste if you can draw it along the way, not going out of it to do so.

I've been very obscure for many years, keeping my work only to the very few people that I could trust back then. It's only recently that I'm spreading out to more public means thanks to inspirations from a certain project. I'll probably draw a bit of fanart about it, but it'd mean little if that was all I did. So I'm steadily presenting the work I made over all those years, and so far so good.

Oh, I know how that feels. I was never much of a forum person and I know I wasn't joining places because of fandoms. Honestly, I'm not here because "zomg Sonic", I just want to meet people, show what I can do, see who gets interested, maybe help out that project if I get lucky. But even if things don't work out as planned, as long as something does, it's worth it.

Basically, it's okay to chase a dream, just don't forget to run on your own feet rather than someone else's.