180 change in opinion.

[Nemox]

Hey Sonic United, I was recently informed of the merger with SFGHQ, so I thought I'd open up with a little intro and a topic regarding a recent purchase.

I'm an indie game dev in training and planning to get a project underway once I get a couple artists to work with me.  I've been experimenting and such with game development via Sonic fangame testing, but unfortunately I've lost all my work.  I'll be starting from scratch soon, and everything I'm using in one of my games will be usable in my fangames as well.  So here's to fresh beginnings!

 

 

In the vain of new experiences, I recently bought Sonic Unleasehd as a learning experience to see how not to make a game.  I remembered that the uber-mach-speed-on-rails gameplay was not to my liking, nor the slow pace of the nighttime stages.

But after playing it again, I've fallen in love with it.  I don't know why I disliked it so much before.  Probably because I had the Wii version before, and I'm playing the 360 version now.

 

I love adventure and roaming free.  That's why my favourite Sonic game of all time is Adventure 1.  So much more open space to roam than other games.  Actually, I found this aspect to be a really redeeming factor about Sonic Osix.  It may have been terrible, but it had freedom.

Unleashed isn't quite as expansive in this regard as I'd like, but it's enough.  I particularly like the low-speed controls a lot more than Generations.  Generations felt like controlling a bike or something at low speeds, while Unleashed feels much tighter.

 

So Sonic United, what Sonic experiences have made you change your opinions?  What's your ideal experience?

[ChaosLord]

The thing I find with things like SA1, Unleashed and '06 is that the open world is generally kind of surreal.

It's unlike a Sonic game, the places are usually large but empty, they're usually not very 'realistic' and they tend to have this oddly calming but... undefinable music playing behind them. As a result, I don't necessarily love them BECAUSE of the free roam but because of the surreal feeling it creates. Mystic Ruin (goddamn that music) and the Soleanna Forest particularly create that effect. And then finding these little oddities like... piles of rocks with tiny gaps so you can see SOMETHING behind them. It all feels like you're making these freaky discoveries.

 

The games are poorly built but as it turns out, their poor design is actually their greatest strength. It creates such a weird feeling of unnatural discovery and has this surreal effect which just hits me in a really good way.

[Serephim]

I bought unleashed for like $10 just to enjoy the daytime stages, expecting a "3.0" experience out of the entire game. I don't why reviewers and fans bashed that game so much. The most significant problem in unleashed was the terrible framerate. Werehog's levels were well-varied in design, the combat was solid with no glitches i can recall, and was pretty well balanced approaching the end of the game. 

 

I feel like if Unleashed had gotten better scores, then Sonic would be in a much better position than it currently is in, because its just been regressing since it was released. Unleashed was released 5 years ago and is still more visually and technically impressive than everything following it. Unleashed tried to incorporate new mechanics into Sonic's gameplay, but now the series only seems to be focused on being Mario. 

 

When Unleashed was being released, I was really hype for what Sonic Team was going to come up with. But Lost World pretty much tells me, there's nothing surprising or interesting to look forward to out of sega anymore.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Serephim

[Nemox]

I bought unleashed for like $10 just to enjoy the daytime stages, expecting a "3.0" experience out of the entire game. I don't why reviewers and fans bashed that game so much. The most significant problem in unleashed was the terrible framerate. Werehog's levels were well-varied in design, the combat was solid with no glitches i can recall, and was pretty well balanced approaching the end of the game. 

 

I feel like if Unleashed had gotten better scores, then Sonic would be in a much better position than it currently is in, because its just been regressing since it was released. Unleashed was released 5 years ago and is still more visually and technically impressive than everything following it. Unleashed tried to incorporate new mechanics into Sonic's gameplay, but now the series only seems to be focused on being Mario.   

 

I'd bet that if instead of a Werehog, they made it Knuckles and sped up the pace a little bit, it would have been a big hit.  In retrospect I now agree regarding Colours and Generations.  Colours had even less exploration, and Generations' controls were much too stiff.  I do like the freedom and pacing in Generations' levels though.

 

If by Mario you're referring to Lost World, I would say I quite enjoy its gameplay a lot more than recent games, even if the levels aren't quite to my taste.

[Serephim]

Looking at Colors before playing it, It looked like a ton of fun to play. But actually playing the game, it was sorely disappointing. The whole game was a really big tease. The few actual full-on levels were great, but the majority of the game was just braindead gimmicky platforming filler. Usually, powerups in platformers enhance the abilities of the character. But in Sonic Colors / Lost World, they just transform you into a minigame.

 

And lost world is just everything I hated about Colors, except made into a game, composed entirely of gimmicky filler. Sega barely makes actual levels anymore.  

Edited December 29, 2013 by Serephim

[Nemox]

What appeals to me first and foremost in a game is the basic controls, and this is what I love in Lost World.  It's essentially the exact thing I've been developing myself, just more refined.  But you're right; despite the wonderful controls, they were poorly utilized.

 

I think this definitely gets into what ChaosLord was saying about experiences.  A lot of us long for a very different paradigm.

[Light The Hedgehog]

Whoooa. Is this about experiences or game debate. Eh, I'll do both. SA1 and SA2 were games that made me feel so good. Now I don't get as much enjoyment out of SA1 but heck it still made my eyes open wide. They just felt like Sonic 1 or 2 in 3D. Almost. But the control was spot on to me. And since I couldn't get past CPZ as a kid. (Like 3-4 cut me some slack.) When I got the Adventure titles I was sub-consciously like "this is what after mystic cave zone feels like." Then I got good at games and didn't know what was wrong with past me's game skill.

As for games and Lost World. I'm on the same if it were Knuckles instead of werehog we'd probably be flippin our chairs. And I'd actually like that. Generations imo is on par with Unleashed if not better. But Colors and Lost World... I also feel Lost World controls went backwards. First having everything on one button sucked now have spread buttons is weird and discombobulating. They also went backwards gameplay and aesthetic wise. In my opinion. 60 frames per second is great and all but. Atleast make the character models match the level/in-game aesthetics.

Goodnight all and tune in sometime in the future for another episode of 2-cents, with Light!

[Serephim]

The problem with lost world's controls for me is that they just lack solidarity. Sonic never really felt like a character I had complete control of. The game never gives you any real ownership of Sonic. The adventure games were chocked full of glitches, but the one thing they never did (outside of loop/chase scenes) was force your control states. Lost world / Colors just randomly gave and removed various abilities from the character. 

 

 

I think the biggest problem with werehog was its contrast with the Day stages. On its own merits it was fine, and had some of the most interesting boss fights i've seen in Sonic games thus far. The character was fine, It was just too much of a jarring tone shift. Having to execute an entire combo on an enemy that regular sonic just slides into and kills instantly didn't make Werehog feel powerful. Scaling walls that regular sonic boosts over wasn't very powerful feeling either. 

 

 

The problem was that Werehog was a completely different game than normal Sonic entirely. The stages should have played a bit more like daytime stages, just with a different set of abilities. The stretchy arms could have been a really awesome substitute for Boost and springs. 

Edited December 30, 2013 by Serephim

[Lhancat]

When it was first released, I absolutley hated Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity. It felt almost worse than the original and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how the gravity controls worked. I handed it back in a few days later.

Then a few years later, I decided to randomly try it out again. All of a sudden after a few tries I worked out the gravity mechanic and could even save myself from falling off the track due to timing when to do it. To my surprise, I was able to finish the game. And to this day, I still love it. The best game out of the Riders trilogy, provided you know what you're doing.

[Crow the BOOLET]

Believe it or not I absolutely hated Colors and the slightest mention of it would make me go off. But overtime I eventually got over my differences with it since I kind of realized that its a decent emulation of the classic games. I still hate the writing, well outside Eggman's funny little snippets. I do forgive the writers though as they are starting to understand the Sonic series a bit more.