Violet CLM

First, I apologize for continuing to go off topic. I do not wish to draw attention away from Sonic & Knuckles Alpha, which I think looks like a very fun game. However, I also do not wish to start a new topic to defend myself for citing my reasons why I found a level boring when someone complained that I had found a level boring without citing my reasons. You can't have it both ways... I am aware of that. I didn't say anything about music, btw, I never bother with it. I am also more than accustomed to small groups of people making projects. My standards are the way they are because where I come from, a level like that might get a 5.5 or something, or a 6, and I suspect that isn't really what you want. I have been working on one Sonic-related project since finding out such things existed. I have never canceled it; rather, I have restarted it several times under my own voalition because I discovered a way I could make it more powerful and give me a wider range of things to do, or was personally unsatisfied with the quality of some graphics, or somesuch. At this point, given a bit more work, it should be more versatile in a few ways than the most powerful 2D scroller engine I have ever encountered. I see no reason other people should not wish to improve their work. I do want to play amateur games! Those that are good. If I don't have fun playing a game, what is my motivation in playing it? I provided criticism regarding how Nexus' released level could be improved in my eyes. It does not have to be taken - that is part of the nature of criticism. However, even if that particular level does not change, the makers of Nexus may or may not want to take my points into consideration in the future. If criticism is not welcome here, I am sorry. I am used to people making every effort they can to find people who will criticise their work and tell them how it can be improved. *sigh* I don't want to debate this - I only want to defend my right to voice an opinion - but you're missing my point. Maybe you can play these levels by running to the right. For Ice Cap Zone, I haven't tried it, because there's so much fun stuff to stop and play with, and so many rewards for not just running blindly without stopping to explore. Sure, you can be allowed to move quickly through the level, but you should also be supported in the wish to not do so. I entered this topic purely to defend Sonic & Knuckles Alpha. It seems that did not particularly work. If anyone wants to have any further discussions on the nature of criticism, ad hominem aside, they are welcome to contact me through private messages. I would rather see this thread be devoted solely to the discussion of a game that I rather like the looks of so far. Edit: "mmmm, pretty pictures!!"

I am not going to try to argue with this on the latter point. I have semi-studied the level design principles behind various games, but not for Sonic, which you have. I also only own S3&K and the SCD demo, so my experience with actual gameplay is limited. I am speaking only in terms of my experience when playing the level. First, it was just way too empty visually. Most of the time all I could see was the platform I was standing on and the background, which was far away and unobtrusive. The walls were not the most graphically detailed walls in the world, and particularly when running along a colorful pipe with nothing else around me, there was really nothing much to look at and appreciate. The technological waterfall like things were a nice and pretty touch, but they weren't (thankfully) everywhere and most of the level just didn't have that appeal. Second, it felt way too much like a "run right" design. On occasion there was something interfering with constant movement, either a pinball area or some rising/falling blocks near the end. Neither of these I minded. The blocks, particularly as a means of getting to a higher floor, worked well. The pinball areas could have had more interesting visuals but the design was decent. However, the level seemed to rely entirely on those to garner interest, and the rest of the layout was running along flat platforms. Third, the badniks... , there is nothing good I can say about the badniks, though I found the flying fusion guy amusing. If they had attack strategies I could not notice them. There were maybe four or five in the whole level just wandering back and forth, posing no threat at all. Fourth, there was very little room for exploration. The paths are really clearly marked, with an occasional possible deviation via diagonal spring or something. I found a shield once, a few ring boxes; but nothing really very interesting. Again, the level layout was hideously undercomplicated. It felt like an engine test with added graphics. I am not an expert on official level designs, and while I recognize the general Angel Island style in that video, I do not know beyond that. Are you saying that the level layout comes from, at least partially, the original game? If so, I agree that that would be not be a fair comparison in terms of work invested in making the game, but I was talking only in terms of interest value and enjoyability, and the design source doesn't really come into play there. I would have the same experience playing Sonic Nexus' released level if the design came from Sonic Advance, for example. Yes, S&K A benefits from all the preexisting stuff of Angel Island - collapsing bridges, waterfalls, bouncing platforms, water, scenery, etc. - but you are welcome to achieve the same amount of interesting stuff on your own!

Sonic & Knuckles Alpha looks great. Angel Island itself never particularly interested me, and this doesn't add much to it, but it still looks like a much better level design than pretty much anything I've seen here. If the other levels in the game are of the same quality, only somewhat more interesting, it's going to be great. The engine looks excellent, though I'm not quite sure I understand Shadow's movement. Nexus... I've played the Nexus demo and seen the pictures on the webpage. It's not a bad engine. It's a boring level. I imagine it gets better elsewhere in the game, but it seems silly to complain about people liking a video of something better than what you've shown so far. (Obviously this is a matter of opinion, but I'm really not sure how someone could find the Nexus demo's level design better than that of the S&K A video.) Other good games exist, yes. XG, SFA, whatever other names I'm not thinking of right now. That doesn't mean another one can't be appreciated, especially when it seems to do a great job of recreating the original Sonic feel.

Mockup at present. It'll get better - more background complexity, better slopes, borders beyond simple pipes - I was just wondering what people thought of the general look. (Character sprite by Gabriel, used with permission.)

The stuff you walk on is called, umm, the "ground." "Foreground" is that which appears before the ground, or more technically, between the camera and the subject. Background is what apears in back of the ground.