DimensionWarped

What? Fangames are filled with glitches. Even the big ones are chock full of them.

Again, Sonic Chrono Adventure came out this year. It's pretty crazy and out there and it seems like quite a bit to experience to me. 3D fangames have picked up considerably and while they are still janky as hell, they are way more impressive than I'd been thinking anything done by a small hobbyist team could be. Much of the stuff out there now has way more obvious measurable value than the MagicGrafx games that got me onto the scene... and the best among those games are guilty of exactly the same crime. Chaomega and Sonic Unity were both one act demos that tried to implement cool new features and have a higher level of polish than the simple, somewhat crappy games that came before them. They still stick out far more in my head than any of the dude's completed games. I think your expectations for what the community can produce may be a little too high. One remarkable fangame every couple years is actually pretty decent output. Maybe not compared to when our expectations were all such that When Tails Gets Bored seemed like a remarkable fangame, but I'll take one Sonic Chrono Adventure over 5 or even 10 of those.

You know, I've been involved with more than my share of one act demos over the years, but I don't begrudge them of their status just because they were one act demos. Even one interesting thing about a level makes a level worth making and the levels I helped to make were all rather unique. I mean, OK, there was that one Christmas Emerald Hill Zone demo I did years ago with Slingerland, but that was just for shits and giggles... All I'm really getting at is that there is nothing intrinsically bad about a project that doesn't end up turning into a full game. As long as people are working on things that they feel are worth working on, it's all good.

There are lots of 3D effects for water. There is the horizontal parallax used in levels in Green Hill Zone and Ice Cap, and then there's also the scaling plane for the foreground that is used in levels like hydrocity. I assume the one you are referring to is the latter, and it's been done numerous times. http://sonicunited.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6249-help-3d-water-effect-in-mmf2/?hl=water Just download the example I put in there... most of the work you'll end up having to do will probably be figuring out how to adapt it to Worlds.

If you guys are so gung-ho about fangaming needing to break out of the whole emulating the classics thing and get into more original ideas, then by all means... do it. Engines that emulate the originals like Worlds are just tools. No one is forcing you to use them and using them doesn't prevent you from thinking outside the box. Hell, it's not like Sonic Chrono Adventure wasn't released earlier this year and it does a bunch of neat interesting stuff just building off of the template of a classic Sonic engine. Heck, Streak took Worlds and turned it into a brawler. It's just a base, you can build it up to be what you want. You know, I can agree that I don't really see much value in yet another one act demo made from Sonic Worlds with a green hill clone that doesn't bring any new ideas to the table, but even just another green hill zone layout is more interesting than doing nothing. How many of you bitching in here have actually released anything lately? Stop posting on here to rant about the efforts of others and spend some of that time being productive and setting an example. For what it's worth, Jassbec, you get a thumbs up for understanding that fangaming is simply a means to learn skills related to something you enjoy. It's a lot easier to learn if you've got people learning with you and it's a lot easier to find people to learn with when you share a common goal. For a long time, creating classic Sonic mechanics has been our common goal, and for the most part, we've achieved it. I don't believe that's ever really been realized into a full game on par with the potential of some of our members just yet, but the pieces are all there. All the people who are still working on classic styled projects like Time Twisted want is for there to be some tangible product of all that effort.

Those drill... ideas... aren't exactly as original as you seem to be implying. Both Megaman and Sonic games have already done the first one in the past many times. The first one even looks like a cross between the large drill enemies from Marble Garden zone and the one in Lava reef. As for the second, well... you know, it's basically just what happens in the ending of Cavestory when Balrog picks up the protagonist. I mean, drill things are always visually fun and a great way to spice up a straight section in a cave, but to act like you have to ask someone before using something as simple and common as a sideways drill which tears up rocks is... well, it's kind of ridiculous.

So... the funny thing about turtles is... They aren't all that damn slow. And the funny thing about hedgehogs... [couldn't find a video demonstrating this well] Well, suffice to say that as far as rodents go they tend to be on the slow side. Anyway, if Sonic were a turtle, the games would probably be a lot more aquatic than they already are. If Sonic were a tortoise on the other hand, then well... they'd probably just play it up for the institutional backwardness of it all like with that snail movie Turbo.

Um... It's also the name of a person from a particularly famous song.

Nothing worth doing is without complication.

I came up with a cheesy title for an overly ambitious project that whose name was probably more than a little inspired by Time Attacked (although I probably didn't realize it at the time). I adopted it as my username and now everywhere I go, I'm some variant of 'DW'.

Hmmmm, someone ask for rolling counters? Two events... at least when you know it will always go up like score. rolling_counters_v1.mfa EDIT: MMF text boxes suck at reacting to clicks, so use the tab key. Caveats: In the above example, if you have a large score that gets accrued slowly immediately followed by a small score that gets accrued quickly, quick wins and the large score will be combined with the small score and added quickly. Example: player kills boss monster and gets 50000 points that are supposed to be accrued over 10 seconds, ~83 points are added per frame for the next 5 seconds. With 5 seconds remaining and 25000 points to go, the player kills a monster that is worth 200 points and gets added over 30 frames 30 frames later, the player's score will have both the remaining 25000 points from the boss and the 200 points from the little monster. If you want something more elaborate... say something that can track multiple accruals on their own timer, then you'll probably need to use an array set up as a queue. I don't imagine too many people need that sort of thing though. I might do the example anyway just to demonstrate my baller-status.

Well, the problem with this approach for quicksand is that the player has to be treated like they are in contact with the ground and if they are in contact with something that we really consider a solid, they'll be constantly pushed out of the solid. You might be able to get around it by setting the ground value to 1 every frame at some point between all of the sensors getting reset and all of the activity that actually uses that information, but it's a lot harder to make the gimmick self contained that way. You are right though, acceleration and top speed probably need to be tweaked in quicksand as well. Going from what I studied of the S3K quicksand just now, it appears that they apply a constant amount of the whole time you are in the quicksand whether you are jumping or not as well. In S3K, the quicksand isn't treated as a solid, and it only actually lasts for about 32 pixels. When you are in it, you are treated as running ungrounded except you are able to jump. Jumping behavior appears to be pretty much normal too, at least for the regular quick sand. You could probably get away with just making it a small collision field that forces your action to run, grounded to zero, and maxes out your x speed in either direction at what you would get after a single frame of motion and limits your y velocity to like... 1/6th of the normal falling maximum while also reducing it consntalty. That way you wouldn't need to change any player stats and the gimmick wouldn't need to track separate states or anything. Then it's just a matter of making a way to jump while in the quick sand (basically just copy the ground jump events with the added condition of being in contact with the quicksand). Being in the air will already keep the player from being able to roll too.

I just hope it is bad enough to get some laughs out of... but not so bad that the laughter turns awkward instead.

You know, people in their twenties don't usually do the whole ranting in the school yard about how stupid Barney and Friends is thing. With shows like this, you pretty much accept that it isn't for you and move on with your life.

I assume we are talking about Sonic Worlds right? If I were doing quicksand in Sonic Worlds, I'd probably go for something cheeky. Like when the player enters the quicksand, an invisible moving platform is spawned under them that sinks slowly and while they are standing on it, their jump strength is reduced. I'm sure there are other less cheeky ways to do it... but they would probably involve creating another active state for the player and it would take more work on your part I think.

1) widescreen 2) 10 zones (more zones tends to mean less love goes into each zone. S3K worked because they did like 6 at a time) 3) Sure, I like more characters. And it's not something that takes that much work. Sonic Advance handled this stuff just fine. 4) A new 2D style 5) I favor the Sonic 2 style of visuals, but that's just me. 6) Transitions are cool, but they aren't really important. 7) Multiplayer doesn't really matter in Sonic games. 8) Nah, instead just let the player switch characters when the other character is near ala Donkey Kong Country. 9) Character specific pathing isn't really important to me as long as the level design is good. 10) Having different bosses for characters is neat, but I think all of the characters should be able to fight all of the bosses under the right conditions. Whether that's via a boss arena or what doesn't matter much, but yeah. I don't think character-specific bosses are essential, but they do provide a nice incentive to give everyone a shot. 11) Tradition sucks. I don't think this is really important, but I'd greatly prefer for a game to put its best foot forward by not showing us tropes we've seen a million times. Well, you left out the Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush series, and Seaside Hill is very much themed after Green Hill Zone even if it flows differently on account of being 3D and not having any of the same gimmicks or anything. It's not so much that they are green hill clones either. The various leaf forests and such get thrown into the mix as well.

The one worders (never less than two syllables): Marble Labyrinth Final Metropolis (The) Doomsday (The) Doom (The) Ark Eggmanland (The) Cauldron Compounds and Portmanteau (usually something meaning city): Hydrocity Sandopolis Casinopolis Westopolis Words that are commonly found together anyway: Star Light Ice Cap Power Plant End of the World Terminal Velocity Adjective-Noun/Noun-Modifier Zone (noun is usually the theme, but not always): Green Hill Spring Yard Scrap Brain Emerald Hill Chemical Plant Aquatic Ruin Casino Night Hill Top Mystic Cave Hidden Palace Sky Chase Wing Fortress Death Egg Angel Island Marble Garden Carnival Night Launch Base Mushroom Hill Flying Battery Lava Reef Azure Lake Balloon Park Chrome Gadget Desert Palace Endless Mine Newtrogic High Egg Carrier Emerald Coast Hot Shelter Ice Cap Lost World Mystic Ruins Red Mountain Sand Hill Sky Deck Speed Highway Twinkle Park Windy Valley City Escape Wild Canyon Prison Lane Metal harbor Green Forest Pumpkin Hill Mission Street Aquatic Mine Hidden Base Pyramid Cave Death Chamber Meteor Herd Crazy Gadget Seaside Hill Ocean Palace Grand Metropolis Casino Park BINGO Highway Rail Canyon Bullet Station Lost Jungle Hang Castle Egg Fleet Digital Circuit Glyphic Canyon Lethal Highway Prison Island Circus Park Death Ruins Sky Troops Air Fleet Iron Jungle Space Gadget Lost Impact G.U.N. Fortress Black Comet Lava Shelter Cosmic Fall Wave Ocean White Acropolis Crisis City (nope, not alliteration) Flame Core Radical Train Tropical jungle Kingdom Valley Aquatic Base Lost Prologue Sand Oasis Dinosaur Jungle Evil Foundry Levitated Ruin Pirate Storm Skeleton Dome Night Palace Windmill Isle Savanna Citadel Dragon Road Cool Edge Arid Sands Misty Lake Deep Woods Titanic Plain Faraway Avalon Knight's Passage Shrouded Forest Great Megalith Dark Hollow Tropical Resort Sweet Mountain Starlight Carnival Planet Wisp Aquarium Park Asteroid Coaster Final Whatever Final Zone (yes, it fits two themes) Final Egg Final Chase Final Rush Final Fortress (also counts as alliteration) Final Haunt Windy Hill Desert Ruins Tropical Coast Frozen Factory Silent Forest Sky Road (holy crap Sonic Lost World had basically no imagination) Alliterative and/or Assonance (frequently follows adjective noun as well) Oil Ocean Palmtree panic Collision Chaos Tidal Tempest Quartz Quadrant Wacky Workbench Stardust Speedway Metallic Madness Sky Sanctuary Botanic Base Speed Slider Amazing Arena Marina Madness Techno Tower Isolated Island Station Square Eternal Engine Frog Forest Mystic Mansion Cryptic Castle Central City Mad Matrix Dusty Desert Rooftop Run Skyscraper Scamper Jungle Joyride Camelot Castle Crystal Cave Molten Mine Soooo... that's like every console Sonic level for people who are paying attention. I tend to favor the non-alliterative noun-adjective form since well... that's what's the most common. I like to take an existing theme, find a way to make it abnormal, and then come up with a name from there. For instance with the madcap grotto demo, I started with a cave theme, but made it into something of an underground mine with a waterway that was full of lights. I eventually settled on using grotto (literally a cave that has been altered by human activity) and then I just came up with an adjective by means of random generating crap until I found one I liked. I think I preferred it because MG rotated 180 degrees looks conspicuously like DW as well... so it sort of worked as a signature.

Eh, we've got some GM Sonic engines as well. They just don't tend to be as heavily developed on as Sonic Worlds. And I think your analysis is a little off. Almost none of us actually use Construct. Candescence is about the only one I can think of. Meanwhile Overbound is a GM user and I personally bounce back and forth between tools depending on my mood... The mix around here is really about even between MMF and GM these days. Sonic Worlds projects that get started and promptly scratched (nothing against Worlds, it just has that completeness to it which makes it an attractive option to people who aren't likely to be willing to put in the effort to create a lot of original content) tend to make it look more stilted than it actually is though.

Looks like a generic Sonic Worlds test level to me... played at like three-quarters speed. There aren't even any new gimmicks, just a tile set. Didn't even bother to remove the water, just set it fairly low.

Truth (I kinda associate the music with the tracks though). And you can actually hear the music, unlike in some versions of SART. So that's another plus in Mario Kart's direction... better sound in general.

For what it's worth, Super-Man, simply because his comics have been running longer than any of this other shit and if you look hard enough I'm sure you can eventually find a source where he does something stupid like moves between two galaxies in a few seconds or some such business.

Got it at launch, I love it, but I'm just going to go ahead and be that guy... Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed when played on a capable PC is prettier, runs smoother, and has more rewarding gameplay for people who master its technical aspects. Mario Kart's got cooler track designs though.

#1: Caverns - parts of Ice Cap Zone, Lava Reef, Mystic Caves, Quartz Quadrant, but not Marble Garden... which is more of a fire + ruins hybrid, also my own Madcap Grotto would be an example Why: They tend to be fairly tight, but have lots of wide open chambers which make for good self-contained challenges. They lend themselves well to coasting, but tend to be somewhat harder than other stages that do so. #2: Clean Technology (less industrial feeling) - Death Egg Zone (S&K), Wacky Workbench (granted bad future looks dirty and more industrial), Launch Base Zone, probably some others. Doesn't include Metropolis, Scrap Brain, or Metallic Madness which all fall under the more heavy industry theme Why: They tend to indicate some sort of climax and they just look awesome. #3: Heavy Industry - More mechanical, less pristine. Metropolis, Scrap Brain, Metallic Madness, does not include Chemical Plant or Oil Ocean which are a little harder to categorize Why: They have lots of viscerally pleasing gimmicks and they tend to bring the highest amount of challenge. #4: Sky and such - Wing Fortress Zone, Sky Sanctuary Zone, Flying Battery Zone, etc. Why: These levels just tend to be balls to the wall crazy. They are the only places where bottomless pits seem justified and they tend to mix it up with other themes like mechanical or ruins. #5: Mountains - Hill Top Zone, the other parts of Ice Cap Zone, Marble Garden (even though I dislike this stage because of how slow paced and huge it is), does not include any of the GHZ/EHZ/etc. types because those fit in their own special category of open basic stages. Why: Lots of vertical scaling with a surprisingly small amount of coasting. Honorable mention: City themed (Starlight Zone, Stardust Speedway, numerous levels from the 3D titles) Now... if I were to do a top three most disliked themes list... #1: Hills (GHZ and EHZ, parts of Aquatic Ruin [a stage I like], but not Mushroom Hill which fits more into the forest trope along with Angel Island Zone) Why: I hate easy and I hate boring. These levels tend not to have a lot of activity going on. #2: Aquatic (Labyrinth and Tidal Tempest are probably the only levels I legitimately dislike in this category, but it would also include Hydrocity just going by the theming) Why: I hate dragging my ass through water. #3: Casinos, Circuses, Carnivals, and other attraction type stages (Spring Yard, Casino Night, Carnival Night, Collision Chaos) Why: I hate feeling like I'm not in control and these levels tend to make you bounce erratically and push you through things.

Just to be clear on this, when I say 'CF2.5 optimizes loops', I'm not talking about the circular loops that Sonic goes through, I'm talking about all of the for/for each loops that Worlds executes as part of its program... which I imagine probably take the majority of the CPU time. Just making sure you know what I meant because... you said 'loop-de-loops' and yeah... Oh is it now? Well, that makes things a little easier, but I didn't know to look for it in there.

I've never ran into that bug.