Next Gen Consoles

[Serephim]

Anyone?

I missed the first half with the controller and probably technical capabilities, but Sony seems to be focusing alot of PS4 around social integration...

...which seems pretty mundane to me, until they called out the guy who's talking about the Cloud features of the console. Instant demos, stream sharing, allowing friends to play games on your screen? It's almost like they're trying to bring back the benefits of couch gaming with a room full of friends.

It quickly went from "boy this is lame" to "Wow, that's actually a really good idea."

Gonna see what Microsoft comes up with, but Sony's decision to take advantage of the cloud for things that usually relied on downloading stuff to your console I think is gonna be something really important. I've never played around with the PC Cloud gaming services, but if they're sophisticated enough then the idea of instantly demoing a title off the network alone is something really innovative.

The big issue with all of this though is probably gonna be the prompt death of actually owning the stuff you pay for.

Edit:

Oh my god i love Media Molecule

Edit:

Square seriously just jumped on the stage after Capcom's brand new tech demo and recycled the same Agni Philosophy tech demo from last year's E3.

[DimensionWarped]

Square Enix:

Speaker A: We have an exciting announcement to make!

*lots of rigmarole with bringing out another speaker*

Speaker B: We are making a Final Fantasy game.

Rest of the world: No shit.

[Serephim]

I was so hype when Square jumped on after Capcom's awesome looking stuff

"OH LOOK its that Yoshihisa guy, i cant wait to see their PS4 Luminous Engine!!!.....wait"

"......This is extended, right? It isn't. Good recycle job square."

"...BAND director? The hell?

"...oh, wow, amazing, awesome, im so excited, get the fuck off the stage"

[DimensionWarped]

Blizzard: We are going to show you something sooooo super awesome!

Blizzard: It's that game that everyone stopped caring about a few weeks after it was released! It also plays pretty much exactly the same on PS3. Yeeeeah! Diablo 3! I know you can't wait to be ranted at by a Diablo who can't quite be taken as seriously as a captain planet villain... again!

Ok, it's over. So yeah... the PS4 seems fairly cool overall. I wouldn't say the graphical leap is as impressive as going from PS2 to PS3, but I have been expecting that for some time. I'm glad to see Infamous is continuing and most of the games shown looked pretty damn awesome. Square Enix and Blizzard should have put a little fucking effort into their showing though. They might as well have just announced it on their web pages for all they did.

[Serephim]

Highlights:

- Interested to see how Sony handles its new acquisition of Cloud technology. But as for horsepower and graphics, The PS3/360 > PS4/720 jump is not nearly as eye opening. I think we've hit a ceiling at this point.

- Killzone...my eyes just cannot be excited for FPS games. No amount of pretty can make them interesting anymore. There is just not enough innovation or variety between any of them for me anymore. Looks awesome though, wish i was hype.

- The moment i saw "SUCKER PUNCH" and a guy wielding fire in a city, I prayed for their new title to be Infamous starring the super villian that was referenced in the ending to the 1st one. I was very, very happy to be right.

- Media Molecule, i love everything about you guys. Please create another LBP-type game with your new stuff. I will send you some money if you do.

- I hate capcom with a passion these days and was not happy at all to see Ono appear onstage. But their new graphical engine (showcasing an actual game no less) is something i cant help but be hype for. It looks like Dragon's Dogma except Multiplayer; successor to Monster Hunter? Yes please.

- XIII was disappointing, XIII-2 was extremely underwhelming, XIV was abysmal. Nobody on EARTH wants a XIII-3. The one title that anyone cares about is the one title you refuse to give attention to. Now at the dawn of the next generation of consoles, you step on stage to rehash a tech demo from E3 and tell us you're working on a new Final Fantasy game. I guess I should start treating you guys like Sega now and stop expecting to be blown away or even mildly excited these days, Square Enix. All you develop anymore is Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy crap. and 50% of those have pretty much sucked.

- Okay, watchdogs can run on PS4, neat i guess. Best part of this was the delicious amount of awkward for the guy who got ripped off by the Killzone presentation.

-You know, there really isn't anything TOO visually different about Bungie's new FPS Destiny, but im so hype for it because of how they handled the Halo IP. I always loved Halo for its ability to take the FPS and make it into something immersive, instead of just cover and headshots.

I wasn't expecting very much from next-gen consoles. Sony has an interesting approach, but without specifics on how they handle ownership, price of hardware and blah blah blah, there's really not much to talk about without the danger of being completely cracked open after Sony gives information. From the gaming side, this is more looking like "Current Gen_1.5" than Next Gen, but i dont think anyone really expected otherwise. I'm really only hype for the continuation of new IPs, but nobody has really done anything worthy of me partitioning my bank account just yet.

The most hype IPs i can think of all belong to companies who seemed determined to either ignore or completely ruin them. So for 2013-2014, the most hype i feel i can squeeze out of this generation....is STILL probably gonna come from Nintendo and the Wii-U. While the Wii-U is still stuck in the 2008 era of visuals, seeing Mario+Zelda+Metroid+Smash Brothers finally take the jump will be just as satisfying as the PS2/GC/XBOx > current gen jump for me.

And deep down inside...i find that kind of depressing.

[DimensionWarped]

One thing I'm a little disappointed by is that we still don't know what it looks like... or any kind of ballpark estimate on the price... or anything like that really.

[GSF]

Oh hey... it's Diablo 37-I mean 3. Whee.

Can't really say much about it for now. Couldn't they have shown at least the damn system itself?

Also: "owning" the stuff you pay for? PFffft- that's something for the history books.

Aaaand I still don't even have a ps3. So that's next in the list meanwhile.

[Rawr]

I wouldn't say the graphical leap is as impressive as going from PS2 to PS3, but I have been expecting that for some time..

We can't really tell for now though. I remember the very early 360 and PS3 titles really just looking like higher end Xbox and PS2 titles, with some better textures. I'm sure as the years go on we can really see just how much people can push out of the console, and I am hoping it will be incredible. All that power under a good art team/direction hopefully will bring some amazing stuff.

Anyway I am hyped for PS4

[DimensionWarped]

This is different though. There aren't going to be any revelations. The PS4 uses what basically amounts to standard PC hardware. There are some slight differences yeah, like using graphics card RAM instead of DDR3, but none of that is going to make a huge difference. There isn't going to be any kind of learning curve for using the hardware.

[OverbounD]

I was not impressed, then I've never bought a Sony Console and have never been impressed with their games.

If I do buy big 3 console it will be a Wii U after some decent games start coming out (3D Mario and Zelda). But even Nintendo doesn't impress me much lately. Feels like there are almost as many NSMB games as Call of Duty games. They haven't even made a decent Mario RPG since Paper Mario:TTYD.

My feeling over all is that this generation of consoles is going to be a dud. Games cost to much, consoles cost too much and most of us have other options.

Really what I'm looking forward to most is the Ouya console. Indie games are far more interesting to me as of past few years.

[ila]

Ouya is a shitty console that's going to change nothing. Especially since it's getting yearly releases.

I'm catching up on information, but aside from the stupid cloud gaming. (Seriously, does no one realize how shitty broadband actually is outside of New York?) I'm pretty stoked for the system.

[TailsSena]

Gonne try not to screw up my first post on this topic.

Well, I didn't see the conference, so I'm just now reading up...

Is it just me, or did they just shove more RAM into a PS3 and call it a PS4? Maybe I haven't read enough yet, but that looks like it's about what they did.

Can't blame them really... The Wii U was Nintendo catching up... And going ahead, but they caught up.

Why do we need a "PS3.5?" The Wii U, XBOX 360, and PS3 are all we need, and they're about all we can do in a home console until the next breakthrough in technology. (Cold processing, I hope.)

Sony, why are you doing this?

[ila]

It's a bit more complex than that actually. The insides are essentially a PC now.

With the Cloud gaming and limited prospects for digital transfers I'm seeing more of a sideways step with the PS4 than a full leap ahead. I'll be keeping my PS3 hooked up to my TV next to my PS4.

[Daniel]

I really don't have much of an opinion on the PS4 except that it looks really darn neat, and I kind of found it jarring that I just got a PS3 too.

Then again that's kind of on me :V

To be honest I am actually looking forward to Watch Dogs, it looked really damn cool.

[OverbounD]

Gonne try not to screw up my first post on this topic.

Well, I didn't see the conference, so I'm just now reading up...

Is it just me, or did they just shove more RAM into a PS3 and call it a PS4? Maybe I haven't read enough yet, but that looks like it's about what they did.

Can't blame them really... The Wii U was Nintendo catching up... And going ahead, but they caught up.

Why do we need a "PS3.5?" The Wii U, XBOX 360, and PS3 are all we need, and they're about all we can do in a home console until the next breakthrough in technology. (Cold processing, I hope.)

Sony, why are you doing this?

Yeah Sony ditched their Cell processor. The advantage is they don't have to set up factories to produce the machines because they are PCs now. Microsoft's last machine was a PC too and I'm sure their next one will be too.

I wouldn't say that Nintendo is playing catch up. What Nintendo has done is very smart. By being a generation behind graphically speaking they can make games and the system a lot cheaper than PS4 and Xbox 720. Plus while the WiiU might be graphically behind I don't think it is behind as far as extra features go. WiiU has a social platform, WiiU has Wii TV, and it supports external hard drives. Sony may have their streaming bit but like Ila said broadband is shit it takes hours now to download a retail games. Imagine what streaming will be like with even larger games. It's going to be a stop and go nightmare.

So while the WiiU may not be selling that well now. Wait till Christmas when Nintendo lowers the price, has some great games, and flushed out operating system.

[TailsSena]

When I said catch-up I meant catching up to the PS3 and 360 with the Wii U, as opposed to the Wii.

[Serephim]

Yeah Sony ditched their Cell processor. The advantage is they don't have to set up factories to produce the machines because they are PCs now. Microsoft's last machine was a PC too and I'm sure their next one will be too.

I wouldn't say that Nintendo is playing catch up. What Nintendo has done is very smart. By being a generation behind graphically speaking they can make games and the system a lot cheaper than PS4 and Xbox 720. Plus while the WiiU might be graphically behind I don't think it is behind as far as extra features go. WiiU has a social platform, WiiU has Wii TV, and it supports external hard drives. Sony may have their streaming bit but like Ila said broadband is shit it takes hours now to download a retail games. Imagine what streaming will be like with even larger games. It's going to be a stop and go nightmare.

So while the WiiU may not be selling that well now. Wait till Christmas when Nintendo lowers the price, has some great games, and flushed out operating system.

What I think is that Nintendo's position on the state of future gaming was more accurate than people thought. Games like Crysis really demonstrate the power of next-gen gaming, but at the same time I believe it's started to show a ceiling when it comes to what we can really achieve next. Lighting techniques and better physics are basically the sweet spot when it comes to the main focus of these next-gen engines. I do not think this generation will be nearly as door opening as it was when we went from PS2/Xbox/GCN to the current gen systems.

For one, the PS4/720 are simply dipping into territory that PCs have been in for a while now already since this generation has lasted so long. The start of the PS3/360 era has allowed for REAL innovations that just didn't really seem possible in the generation prior. Games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Theft Auto 4, the Uncharted / Infamous series, all took advantage of the horsepower of the system to really change things, from physics to better animation techniques. I think with this next generation, things like application of fluid simulations, real-time destruction of objects, less scale limitations and other cpu-intensive features will be the main benefits. Overall, i just think this generation has already numbed us up to features like "hundreds of on-screen entities" or "expansive draw distances."

What Nintendo has done with Wii-U is the exact same thing they did with the Wii. They're taking advantage of the aged technology of the current generation for ease of development and lower cost. While the PS4 will allow AAA developers to create more jawdropping stuff with sexy new engines designed for the hardware, i'd wager that most of the other developers will be getting away with PS3-level graphics stuff with some sexy upgrades that are made easier by the less limiting hardware. I just cant see Wii-U suffering from quite the same types of issues that the Wii did in terms of Ports and stuff.

With the nature of this generation leap, I don't think nintendo will have to suffer like it did with the Wii. And even when it was suffering, it was winning anyway. They get left in the dust with hardware and visuals, but stay in the race by keeping the standards realistic and accessible. If Zelda/Smash really end up at E3 this year, then that is probably all the Wii-U will need.

[Rawr]

If Zelda/Smash really end up at E3 this year, then that is probably all the Wii-U will need.

Everyone complains about the other systems being full of a lack of innovation but it's been my opinion for a while now that Nintendo just pulls the wool over everyone's eyes by barely (if ever) developing new IPs that really take advantage of the 'uniqueness' they like to tout. At the end of the day they never do anything new on the software end of things to really stand out imo, and neglect a lot of their properties that would at least feel more fresh in the interest of pumping out a new Zelda or Mario game. Don't get me wrong, I love Zelda, but I think their whole schtick is just one big gimmick just like the rest of the companies. The only difference is I find the other two companies don't try and hide it nearly as much. Nintendo emphasizes just how different they are yet I don't fully see it.

I have nothing against the same-old experience either. I just feel like if I'm being told 'look at how revolutionary and unique we are compared to everyone else' I'd like to believe it and not feel like I'm being lied to. I just never see it with them anymore. I loved Nintendo up until the Wii released (was super hyped for it too) and then I saw it for what it really was. Like I love my 3DS and the two or three games I have for it, but the novelty of the 3D effect has worn off just like the novelty of their motion controls, and the inevitable realization with the Wii-U that it really is just the same console everyone else has but with lesser hardware.

Most of the things I saw in the PS4 presentation were a little over the top, and they were emphasizing their new features, but I felt like some of them were pretty practical and that I'd actually use from time to time. I like the social features, as all my friends live far away and I like connecting through games. I thought it was neat. I liked the emphasis on creativity. If the system can really deliver on that I'll be ecstatic. I know to hold my breath though until I see it in action, but at least I know I'll be getting a beefier traditional experience all the same so that at least gives me peace of mind. It wasn't made out to be anything but, so I'm cool with that.

Which is why I think I'm gonna roll with a PS4 and hopefully the next Xbox unless its super kinect focused to the point where I want to die. Which unfortunately I fear is going to be the reality.

That's just how I feel on this though. I know a lot of people are gonna disagree and that's okay. I generally hesitate when posting my thoughts about Ninty 'cause a lot of people generally jump down my throat for it. It just sucks because I used to really love them a lot growing up. I was a SEGA kid primarily but grew up with more Nintendo consoles than SEGA stuff. It was only this gen that I switched to a Microsoft console (and halfway through got my first Sony console). So it's just frustrating to me a little lol.

[OverbounD]

When I said catch-up I meant catching up to the PS3 and 360 with the Wii U, as opposed to the Wii.

I was talking about the Wii U too. I don't consider it playing catch up it seems as next gen as PS4 aside from the graphics.

What I think is that Nintendo's position on the state of future gaming was more accurate than people thought. Games like Crysis really demonstrate the power of next-gen gaming, but at the same time I believe it's started to show a ceiling when it comes to what we can really achieve next. Lighting techniques and better physics are basically the sweet spot when it comes to the main focus of these next-gen engines. I do not think this generation will be nearly as door opening as it was when we went from PS2/Xbox/GCN to the current gen systems.

Right. The console business is racing to the bottom, sales have been sluggish for years now and I doubt they will ever recover as people start using tablets and internet tvs. Nintendo seems to know this and their goal is to maintain profitability. To rely on their IPs and essentially force people to buy their newest hardware if they want that "Nintendo Experience".

For one, the PS4/720 are simply dipping into territory that PCs have been in for a while now already since this generation has lasted so long. The start of the PS3/360 era has allowed for REAL innovations that just didn't really seem possible in the generation prior. Games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Theft Auto 4, the Uncharted / Infamous series, all took advantage of the horsepower of the system to really change things, from physics to better animation techniques. I think with this next generation, things like application of fluid simulations, real-time destruction of objects, less scale limitations and other cpu-intensive features will be the main benefits. Overall, i just think this generation has already numbed us up to features like "hundreds of on-screen entities" or "expansive draw distances."

Yeah, there are points in current gen systems where you can barely tell its a game. Going from that to basically movie quality CG isn't that impressive. Plus as you said we've seen it on the PC.

What Nintendo has done with Wii-U is the exact same thing they did with the Wii. They're taking advantage of the aged technology of the current generation for ease of development and lower cost. While the PS4 will allow AAA developers to create more jawdropping stuff with sexy new engines designed for the hardware, i'd wager that most of the other developers will be getting away with PS3-level graphics stuff with some sexy upgrades that are made easier by the less limiting hardware. I just cant see Wii-U suffering from quite the same types of issues that the Wii did in terms of Ports and stuff.

I can see ports still being an issue, maybe to a lesser extent. But Nintendo's problem with third parties is one of their one creation. Their games are just miles ahead of what anyone else does on their consoles. So no one buys the third party games. The people that have, at least as far as the Wii goes were casual gamers buying throw away crap.

With the nature of this generation leap, I don't think nintendo will have to suffer like it did with the Wii. And even when it was suffering, it was winning anyway. They get left in the dust with hardware and visuals, but stay in the race by keeping the standards realistic and accessible. If Zelda/Smash really end up at E3 this year, then that is probably all the Wii-U will need.

Right. I do think it's Mario's turn not Zelda's. I don't think NSMB counts... I am very interested in seeing how the next 3D Mario game goes. If it's just Super Mario Galaxy 3 and not something as revolutionary as SMG, SM64, or SMB3 I'm going to be pissed.

Everyone complains about the other systems being full of a lack of innovation but it's been my opinion for a while now that Nintendo just pulls the wool over everyone's eyes by barely (if ever) developing new IPs that really take advantage of the 'uniqueness' they like to tout. At the end of the day they never do anything new on the software end of things to really stand out imo, and neglect a lot of their properties that would at least feel more fresh in the interest of pumping out a new Zelda or Mario game. Don't get me wrong, I love Zelda, but I think their whole schtick is just one big gimmick just like the rest of the companies. The only difference is I find the other two companies don't try and hide it nearly as much. Nintendo emphasizes just how different they are yet I don't fully see it.

I must say that after the initial excitement over the Wii's motion control wore off Nintendo's games for the system were more standard than ever before. Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are very similar, new super mario bros is something of a rehash, Zelda TLP is like OOT with better graphics, DKC:R plays like a 2D Mario game, the list goes on and on.

What you must keep in mind is that for the first 3 years most of these experiences were newish. Galaxy is pretty different than Sunshine, Super Paper Mario was rather different, Wii Sports didn't have tons of rip offs, Mario Kart Wii was a great return to form after double dash. I think the console generation just went on too long thus the repetitiveness. Typically speaking new IPs are launched with systems as it's where the stand the best chance at an audience. With less competition from well know IPs on the same system.

I hear you loud and clear as far as the 3Ds is concerned though. They done fucked that up.

So how about M$? Personally I think they are going to launch the 720 with IllumiRoom and a better Kinect. When you think about it they've been a real source of innovation maybe even more so than Nintendo. We all knew what a tablet was, but who knew about Kinect? They were the first company to succeed in online gaming (Sorry Seganet), and first company to adopt hard drives, and now illumiroom possibly? Wait and see I guess.

[Rawr]

Like I said though its not the fact that those games are the same, its the fact that they are coming from a company touting to be unique and different. Twilight Princess was the last Zelda game I bought and enjoyed and it was on the gamecube, was developed first for that platform thus I consider it a GC game in all respects.

Even then the games from the first three years of the Wii's life were kinda scarce in terms of good games. I didn't see the 'revolution' that was being imposed, and it took them to make a separate peripheral just to deliver on what was essentially promised at day 1 - that thing being the motion plus attachment. Most of the games I feel were just the standard game with just a little motion waggles here and there overall. Galaxy to me is only different in the sense that Mario Sunshine is the odd one out, Galaxy is a lot like (to me) a watered down Mario 64 that is a lot more linear. I didn't enjoy it to be completely honest, a friend was letting me play through it with him at his house after school. Fuck that feels like forever ago now haha.

There is nothing wrong to me about releasing same old IPs with better graphics and more refined gameplay, even if the experience is largely the same. Reason being is that I think what isn't broken in a series shouldn't be fixed so to speak. I think there is always room to add mechanics but I like when a core title plays to its strengths. The problem for me, again, is that Nintendo loves to say its far different and really push the innovative angle without properly doing it anymore. Even with traditional controls, I felt in the past their software really delivered on pushing great new experiences with tried and true methods - but they always still felt fresh. Now they are mainly so focused on how to make their hardware stand out that I feel they are losing grip on what made their games fun in the first place - not to mention it'd be nice if they'd develop a new IP now that really took advantage of what their systems can be used for with no restrictions as it would have no prior history. They're sort of stagnating in my opinion on the software front and that's where I really feel let down, because it makes their hardware feel like a bit of a ruse.

As for MS, again, I really hope it doesn't become super Kinect focused unless they can actually use it properly this time. Kinect was another thing I was super hyped and excited for only to be severely let down. Thankfully it doesn't really invade any of the games I play. But I fear on their next console it WILL. I have no doubt their online infrastructure is going to be the best on the market, though Sony seems to have upped their game. We'll see - I've always loved my experience with Xbox Live aside from all the fucking ads now haha. I just don't want them to get too gimmicky is all. I don't think we're quite at a point tech-wise where we can really hit the 'next level' of how we play games and so I'd rather it not be forced on us so quickly.

[Serephim]

Well, Wii is still the only current gen system I don't have or have never had. (Had an Xbox, RRoD'd, got PS3, never looked back)

Nintendo's innovation pitch is and always has been just an advertising edge to me. I won't deny that the Wii did change things -- without its existence, things like Playstation Move or Kinect probably would not exist, or at least not in the fashion that they do today. Nintendo set out to innovate the market, and undoubtedly they have. Whether or not they're leading the drive in that today is questionable, but in the end it doesn't really matter to me because Nintendo has always been like that. Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer doesn't really sway me, but their reliability as software developers is the thing that has kept me respect for them throughout the years. If Sony has EVER had a company that was able to accomplish this for me, it would have hands down been Squaresoft. Squaresoft helped make the Playstation 1 the most memorable console i'll probably ever have owned in my life. If Microsoft had a company that accomplished this, the only one i could think of is Bungie. Halo was the "Melee" of the Xbox -- everyone had that damn game, and it was awesome. Everything else about Xbox were its influx of 3rd party titles due to its horsepower over ps2 and gcn.

Melee, Double Dash, Metroid Prime 1 & 2, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Phantasy Star Online, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Tales of Symphonia, Resident Evil 4. When I think of "Gamecube", these are the games that come to mind in terms of the most satisfaction and memorable moments, with Phantasy Star and Melee being on the absolute top in terms of played hours, well past the multiple hundreds. Most games in that list are 1st party Nintendo. I didn't give a damn about Wii's motion controls, or its innovation, or any of that crap. The initial appeal to the Wii for me was the fact that Nintendo is an exclusive developer for itself. That's it.

As for recent Nintendo...I feel like Mario Kart has been on a drastic quality decline since Double Dash, since I haven't played a single Wii version of MK that felt as polished, innovative or pulling as DD did. Brawl took everything that made Melee such a solid long-lasting game and butchered almost every elegant feature available...obviously in an attempt to "APPEAL" to the "CASUAL" group of gamers which, despite their enormous skillcaps, 64 and Melee already excelled at anyway without being shit. Donkey Kong has been a shitty gimmicksink since gamecube. Outside the Galaxy titles, 2D Mario has come back with a vengeance, and has honestly been somewhat hollow to me every single time. MP3 was apparently as great as the others, but Other M has brought Metroid to a place darker than it has never been in its life. So with the exception of Prime 3, Skyward Sword and the Galaxy games, Nintendo didn't really provide me with any reason to entertain the Wii with its 1st party games this time around. And thanks to most 3rd Party Wii games being horseshit it still hasn't given me a reason to.

Nintendo no longer has the luxury of the best motion controls (Move/Kinect), and the luxury of the Wii-U controller will probably be shortlived too (PS+Vita and Xbox+whatever). But it has the power of the current generation on its side. And this is a big deal for me -- I never cared for the DS because of its pathetic horsepower in comparison to PSP. I don't care about the 3DS because of the same drastic overshadowing from Vita. But the gap in possibilities between Current gen -> Next Gen just have not demonstrated themselves to be nearly as significant. A current-gen effort from nintendo that mirriors Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess / Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime and Melee is something that genuinely interests me, in a way comparable to the next Tekken, Halo or Elder Scrolls title. I actually look forward to Nintendo's E3 presentation moreso than a PS4 or 720 presentation because of that. Whether or not that is enough to make the system succeed, I have no idea. But that's is probably the only thing that's kept me from completely ignoring nintendo in the last few years. Nintendo limiting themselves with the shitty Wii hardware has imposed serious limits on their games, but...i just can't see how limiting themselves to the hardware of this generation will cripple them in the same way.

There is NOTHING that will pop up on 720/PS4 that will make GTA5, Last of Us or Ground Zeroes not look amazing in comparison. That's where Wii-U is right now.

But on the other hand I dont think anyone is actually fooled by Wii-U. It's marginally weaker than the Playstation 3 and it's 7 years late to the party. Its controller gimmick is basically the smartphone-era exploitation of casual gamers applied to a home console, and they've failed to blindside Sony/MS this time around with a feature they haven't already thought of. Nintendo has long since stopped trying to be profitable through brute force. But there hasn't been a console from Nintendo since N64 who's primarily appeal didn't come from the promise of kickass Nintendo-developed exclusives.

[BlitznBurst]

I never thought I would actually say this, but it really does seem like Nintendo is becoming gradually more casual. I have no problem with Nintendo trying to make games more accessible for people, since ultimately that will get them more sales, but they don't have to keep streamlining their games more and more.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just pissed Paper Mario Sticker Star.

[XeroNazoBlaze]

I really dislike that social integration thing.

[DimensionWarped]

Then don't use it. Problem solved.

[XeroNazoBlaze]

Then don't use it. Problem solved.

Of course I won't, but this will end in "SHARE YOUR PROGRESS IN FACEBOOK TO CONTINUE". but w/e.